[madog99]

I am using an old set of the SMGA's and love them . Mine need the wires reglued , starting to lift at the bottom and around the tuning button in the center , which causes a buzz on some notes or when I turn it up . this rarely happens as apt life is not volume friendly . But I may have a chance to pick up a 3 year old pair of MMG's for about 1/2 price . I have promised myself that I would attempt the re-glue on the SMGA's this summer but the MMG's are tempting , plug and play so to speak and worry free for many years . For anyone that was had both sets can you offer any insight on the 2 ?  If the refurb on the SMGA's goes well I was going to do the X-over mods which would add more cost to the project .

thanks

[tabrink]

 
Well I had the 1.6QRs for years. Downsized my home and found a pair of SMG NOS that I have been using for two channel and TV in a comfortable space for the wife. They sound great. But they do not sound better than a friends MMG. I do think the SMG go lower to my ears and we are using vintage 70's receiver to drive them and their reproduction of piano is amazing. But.. I have a friend who is using his Virtue Sensation 901 to drive his MMG and the modern technology is apparent. I probably like the vocal and some instrument  solos better on the SMG but we are not listening at high levels. The MMGs flat rocked when you throw a little current into them. I would not ever want to push to hard the SMG just because they are so "pleasing to the ear" at moderate levels. They are full sounding for movies as well but we only listen in two channel mode for music or TV. A pair of MMG at half price would be the bargain of the century IMHO.
Best, Tom

[Rclark]

I can attest to this mmg rockage. Very epecially modded. They do everything well, but a few genres exceptionally well, is the way me and my friends see it.

Unmodded, you will need a sub, and they have a very tight sweet spot.

[medium jim]

I can attest to this mmg rockage. Very epecially modded. They do everything well, but a few genres exceptionally well, is the way me and my friends see it.

Unmodded, you will need a sub, and they have a very tight sweet spot.

There isn't a Magnepan out there with the exception of the 20.1 or 20.7 that doesn't need a sub to get proper bass extension, unless you are listening to chamber music, classical, or jazz (even they sound better with subs), even modded as there is still the physical size restriction. 

I love Magnepan's for their mid bass, mid and incredible highs (with ribbons), their clarity, accuracy and huge soundstage, but they don't do bass well below 50hz. 

To answer the OP's quesion, I fixed the loose wires on my 2.5's that are over 20 years old and I love them.  Go to the Magnepan User Group and go to the Tweaks Section and there are several good posts on how to repair them, or ask Davey who posts here.  Spend the money on a good small and fast sub and you will be happily pleased on how good you system sounds.  For better results, get a pair of subs.  I have a pair of B&W ASW300's that are no longer made, they show up on eBay for cheap no and then are very musical and fast and integrate very well with Magnepan's.

I would still get the MMG's as that is too good of a price to pass on and build another system around them.

Jim

[Rclark]

Oh you're right, it won't go below 50, although we'll see how low with Ncores on each, but they do have excellent bass, modded. Gunn'd actually. The finest bass I've ever heard. My sub is sitting in the living room. And I like low bass!

I know you've never heard modded mmg's, and are fresh from the AA killing fields, but you just dont know.

 unmodded, zero bass, however.

 proper subs for.low bass are in the que.

[Rclark]

I have a feeling that I'm a bit younger than you and I listen to a lot of bassy, heavy music, and I hardly feel like I'm missing much without a sub 

 rap, dubstep, metal, hard rock. The mmg's kill it, trust me.

All I need is low bass, but the mmg's are so good that I'm leaving subs for later and updating their amps first.

 they aren't house party speakers, but in my room, plenty of bass.

[medium jim]

Rclark:

AA Killings Field?  Other than a few out of control knuckleheads, there is a lot to learn from the inmates.  Too bad it wasn't properly moderated and that there was censorship among other things that made in unattractive for many of us.

I have nothing against John "Peter Gunn" other than some of the posts he made and that he claims a 6db gain in SPL that is clearly impossible, or that there is a huge gain in low bass, again, unsubtantiated. 

Bottom line, I'm as please as punch that you truly like your Gunned MMG's, at the same time I will voice my honest opinions, isn't that what this forum is about?

Just for the record, I like some slam, but favor realism and run everything flat and let the recording dictate how much bass extension there is, subs allow that to happen or not.

Jim

[medium jim]

I have a feeling that I'm a bit younger than you and I listen to a lot of bassy, heavy music, and I hardly feel like I'm missing much without a sub 

 rap, dubstep, metal, hard rock. The mmg's kill it, trust me.

All I need is low bass, but the mmg's are so good that I'm leaving subs for later and updating their amps first.

 they aren't house party speakers, but in my room, plenty of bass.

...

[Rclark]

They're begging for more power, so I'm sure a bump from maxed out high quality 85 watts to a world class 400 will bring it. 

Subs are a definite, but they will have to match the superb resolution and speed of bass I get now.

[SteveFord]

I try to play the music loud enough so the wife can't talk over it easily. 
This requires a surprising amount of power.

Getting back on topic, grab those MMGs and repair your SMGAs.
Surely another pair won't take up too much space and they can always be put to use somewhere...

[NIGHTFALL1970]

I never felt that I needed  a sub with my 1.7s.  This is with my AVA 400R.  Before that I used my Classe DR-10. Am I missing something?  I wish I could borrow a sub or two and find out.  Rythmik are highly recommended.

[madog99]

I try to play the music loud enough so the wife can't talk over it easily. 
This requires a surprising amount of power.

Getting back on topic, grab those MMGs and repair your SMGAs.
Surely another pair won't take up too much space and they can always be put to use somewhere...

Well a 2brd apt is fairly cramped for 2 sets of Maggies , plus the other sets of speakers  stashed about . I was spinning some new tunes in the living room tonight and even though the SMGA's are only listed as 40Hz I did not feel they were lacking bass , not like my large floorstander's had but living with shared walls and floors required compromise and the maggies have delivered . If I had no volume issues a sub would be the answer for sure. For years I ran the older version of the Energy C8 ( 5.1e's ) with a 12"sub and large energy ESM2's for rears , tri- amped 5.1 surround.  But am now 2ch and enjoying the music much more with the maggies . Just wish I could crank it a wee bit more sometimes. 

[medium jim]

They're begging for more power, so I'm sure a bump from maxed out high quality 85 watts to a world class 400 will bring it. 

Subs are a definite, but they will have to match the superb resolution and speed of bass I get now.

Maxed out at 85 watts and only achieving 85 db's?  I've only got 70wpc of world class and get dynamic peaks well into the 100's and continuous listening in the mid 90's with my 2.5's that magnepan says are 83 db @500hz 2.83v.  I guess in the real world they might be closer to 86db and 89db in the sweet spot.

As far as me hearing a pair of gunned MMG's, I saw a pair listed on AudiogoN and since they were only about 60 miles away, I went and listened to them.  They sounded nice, but didn't grab my wallet out and say buy me. However, I could easily see why there is a fuss about them and that some swear by them.


Jim

[*Scotty*]

Of the affordable subs out there, the Rythmik subs are the only ones that I know of that are servo controlled and they should be the best choice for achieving a good or possibly seamless transition between the panels and the sub or subs.
 Many times the transition between the sub and the panels results in a strong energization of the rooms basic resonant frequencies which are related to the rooms dimensions. This makes for poor quality bass reproduction below the range covered by the panels.
 Of course there is nothing necessarily wrong with the "speed" of the sub-woofer. There is however a great deal wrong with room response, which may lead one to potentially judge the woofer as being slow and unable to keep up with the panels.
This is where it helps to measure the system response before and after adding the sub-woofer to the system to see whether or not you have created problems and what frequencies they are occurring at.
 The before measurement will also tell you how much bass you are actually getting from your maggies versus what you think you are hearing and what frequency you need to cross them over at.
 When I was running SMGs and MGIIIs they frequently sounded like I was hearing all of the bass that was present in the recording via psychoacoustic effects, of course when I added the output of a properly integrated sub to the system I found out how much bass extension I had been missing.
As far as "Gunned"  maggies go, once again this is a case where measurements of the MMGs sensitivity at 2.83 volts input before and after modding as well as a measurement of the speakers response curves would go a long way towards separating fact from wishful thinking and psychoacoustic effects.
Scotty

[medium jim]

Scotty,

I suppose you're right that only a servo sub should do.  Funny thing, my ears  don't know that.  Even funnier was that I was ready to spend up to 3k for a sub or subs and ended up spending $700.00 for the pair of B&W's and have absolutely no regrets nor do I feel the need to go out and spend 3k for better bass.

I learned a long time ago to trust my ears and not what something costs.

Jim

[ken]

I happened to listen to both the stock SMGA and the gunned version and there was absolutely no contest.  The gunned ones were superior in every way and by a wide margin. 
  I suppose in a larger room a sub would be desireable but in all honesty I was too transfixed with what I was hearing to notice a lack of bass.  As always Ymmv   

[Rclark]

I happened to listen to both the stock SMGA and the gunned version and there was absolutely no contest.  The gunned ones were superior in every way and by a wide margin. 
  I suppose in a larger room a sub would be desireable but in all honesty I was too transfixed with what I was hearing to notice a lack of bass.  As always Ymmv   

+1

And Jim my measurement is taken as an average from a Windows phone app  so dont get too excited.

And that was just with one song. Hardly definitive. A much better rig, Omnimic, is my next purchase.

[medium jim]

Mr Clark,

Unfortunately, not much gets me excited anymore

Jim

[Rclark]

Well I am fresh off a pair of Gr Insignia monitors, they are considered 500 to 1000 dollar class.

I'm just saying, don't knock em till you hear em, they might be even better than yours you never know. 

[medium jim]

I needed a good laugh.  I do like your youthful enthusiasm.

Jim