[hdspeakerman]

Hello,
I just had an experience that I wanted to share with the group.  For the last few days I have been listening to music using a small Creek pre amp and I did not think it sounded too bad.  Since today is a holiday for me I decided to shake things up a little bit.  I swapped the Creek out with a vintage Dynaco PAS 3 rebuilt for me by our moderator.  The difference was startling.  The music became full bodied and had more depth.  It was like comparing AM to FM or something like that.  I read a lot of discussion here about people wandering what this type of change might do for their system.  It sure made a difference for me.  The amp is an APA 150 from Parts Express.
 
Howard Stever
Ste. Genevieve, Mo.

[denny9167]

Hello,
I just had an experience that I wanted to share with the group.  For the last few days I have been listening to music using a small Creek pre amp and I did not think it sounded too bad.  Since today is a holiday for me I decided to shake things up a little bit.  I swapped the Creek out with a vintage Dynaco PAS 3 rebuilt for me by our moderator.  The difference was startling.  The music became full bodied and had more depth.  It was like comparing AM to FM or something like that.  I read a lot of discussion here about people wandering what this type of change might do for their system.  It sure made a difference for me.  The amp is an APA 150 from Parts Express.
 
Howard Stever
Ste. Genevieve, Mo.

You are definately on to something. I will say that all the years I've been an audiophile,nothing has moved me as much as tubes have. I've listened to just about every type of solid state gear out there: Krell,Levinson,Classe',you name it.   The first time I ever listened to a tube set up was at a hi-fi shop in Dallas,Tx. It was Audio Research gear playing on a pair of Magnapan's. Truly gorgeous sounds coming from those panels, I was hooked,but knowing full well I could never afford that AR stuff,until I discovered DYNACO!!.  Now I have that sound had always dreamed of!!

[Delta Wave]

I just switched from a Nakamichi CA-5 to an old Melos MA-333 and I'm feeling it too!  The Nak still has one of the finest phonostages I've ever heard though.

[doug s.]

a tube pre will always be a part of my system...

oh ya - this thread is about wintage tube pre's - my melos ma333r is pushin' 20, and i have no intention of replacing it any time soon.   

doug s.

[jimdgoulding]

a tube pre will always be a part of my system...

oh ya - this thread is about wintage tube pre's - my melos ma333r is pushin' 20, and i have no intention of replacing it any time soon.   

doug s.

Me, too, Doug.  For new product I would head for the Mystere CA21 but for analog playback you gotta add a step-up device.  Hate it when that happens.   

[medium jim]

Before I go too far, let me state that I'm a bottlehead.  I own a realigned and serviced 1961 McIntosh MX110 preamp/tuner and a tweaked Bottlehead Foreplay II preamp.  They make music sound fuller and have that wonderful holographic soundstage.

Heck, the MX110 even makes my BGW 500D sound pretty good when I hook it up.  I use that amp now and then in lieu of my Marantz 9 VAC reissues when I want to get live concert spl's.

There are some truly amazing SS pre's, but none deliver the feel of a really good tube pre to me.

Heck, even my CDP has a tube line stage after the DAC, an Ah! Tjoeb that gets it real analog.

Jim

[TheChairGuy]

A $100 Dynaco tube preamp was my entry to tubes almost a decade ago. I heard plenty wrong with this stock example, but there was something so alluring about that midrange that I knew there was more to it.

However, after doodling with a couple more tube preamps, I ended up preferring voltage regulated tube amps and a full functioned SS preamp (with phono).

Most of my serious music listening is vinyl and SS preamp is simply quieter and generally sounds best to me....and digital sounds good enough today to not require tubes at the preamp level anymore. 

For that lovely tube elan, I find (only voltage regulated) tube amps right.

[doug s.]

A $100 Dynaco tube preamp was my entry to tubes almost a decade ago. I heard plenty wrong with this stock example, but there was something so alluring about that midrange that I knew there was more to it.

However, after doodling with a couple more tube preamps, I ended up preferring voltage regulated tube amps and a full functioned SS preamp (with phono).

Most of my serious music listening is vinyl and SS preamp is simply quieter and generally sounds best to me....and digital sounds good enough today to not require tubes at the preamp level anymore. 

For that lovely tube elan, I find (only voltage regulated) tube amps right.

it's funny - my entry to tubes was the diminutive asl wave-8 amps, not a preamp.  tube preamps came later.  as w/tcg, there were issues w/these 8w amps.  in my case, they were driving my 89db-efficient speakers in a 26x38 room.  but, i was hooked.  and, like tcg, i also prefer analog to digital sources.  but, while i still prefer tube amps, i can live w/solid state amps.  but there is no way i can give up a tube preamp.  especially with digital.  for issues w/'quiet" for winyl, a solid-state fono stage run into my tube preamp works great...

ymmv,

doug s.

[kbuzz3]

I have to say im in the vintage tube pre amp camp.  The three pres im regular rotation are a pilot 216 and a fisher 400 and a semi vintage early joule electra.   I cant seem to enjoy most music without tubes.

I cant say i have ever heard a new state of the art tube pre but until someone drops one in my system at a reasonable price im staying with the trio above.

[Ericus Rex]

I cant seem to enjoy most music without tubes.

+1

Welcome to the world of tubes, Howard!

[TONEPUB]

The vintage tube stuff is so much fun because it's a really inexpensive way to get musical sound.  Of course, you can chase the rabbit too far, but it is a blast.  Some of the most fun systems I've ever had have been centered around a PAS 3 and ST70 or a pair of Mk. III's.  I'm also a big fan of the earlier CJ preamps and the MV50 power amp.

Especially with digital sources, and a lot of 60's & 70's rock records, it's tough to go wrong with the Dynaco stuff.  I just miss the days when you could pick up a clean PAS 3 for $50 and a Stereo 70 for about $75! 

[Mortsnets]

I've got a DIYTube ST-35 and tried a Bottlehead Quickie battery powered tube preamp with it, but it wasn't my cup of tea.  Maybe too tubealicious.  Now I'm using a Marchland PR41 passive.

[Poultrygeist]

Did someone mention Bottleheads?

[drjjpdc]

Howard, Welcome to the bottleheads. I had an Audible Illusions 3 from 1992 (qualifies for vintage) and upgraded it to the M3A in 1995 (almost vintage). Tubed Pre's are great. The problem with tube power amps though is if you like Orchestra/Organ and you have a decent sized room, you need something like a VTL Wotan or the like in the 5 figure category with enough tubes to heat your listening area. And when they need replacements more wallet depletion!

I do have a tubed power amp but it is on my satellites in a 4 box woofer and midrange/tweeter system. I have a high current power amp for the bass output and tubes on my satellites. My tube power amp is the Quicksilver V4 (120 watts/ch), a great tube amp for unfussy audiophiles. Tubes last forever (well almost) and the bias control could not be easier. There are 4 meters on each monoblock for each power tube (I have KT-88 Tesla) and a slot screw behind each tube using a flat screwdriver! No lifting or bending or having to go underneath the amp.

[Poultrygeist]

There is no problem with tube power amps when used to drive high efficiency speakers.

[hdspeakerman]

WOW!  I did not see that so many new folks had given their thoughts and comments.  I am glad now that I shared my light bulb moment.
Howard   

[drjjpdc]

Poultry,
But there is a dirty little secret about HE speakers. For example,

Efficiency is one of the three main criteria in designing speakers.

1) You can have efficiency.

2) You can have deep, extended bass.

3) You can have a physically small enclosure.

But, the laws of physics say you cannot have all three. Two, perhaps, but not three.

Plus most HE speakers are of a horn type design, not necessarily real horns but related to them. They can be brighter or have a tilted up response, a la JBL's or the  Klipsch Heresy. Many of them turn out to be more expensive than lower efficiency designs. As for me a way I like to get higher efficiency is to put a dedicated amp inside a speaker for the bass. Something like the Triton Two Towers from Golden Ear for around $2500. But if you start moving towards some French designs or some larger tuba style horns, you can easily start going toward $20K or even more!

John

[medium jim]

Did someone mention Bottleheads?

Doc Smalle of Bottlehead does offer nice DIY stuff, I have a modified Foreplay II that is damn nice and it is in my B system, but is easily good enough for my main system. 





Jim

[Poultrygeist]

Here I'm using two Dayton APA 150s to drive the OB H-frame woofers along with 2a3 Bottleheads for the Tang Bands via a vintage CJ PV1 tube preamp. Solid state is always my choice for strong bass but tubes are best for HE full range drivers.

[drjjpdc]

Poultry,

Yes I agree. I like SS, but not any SS, it has got to be a high current model to really handle the bass. And I will never get rid of my Quickies.