[celo]

I am leaning towards these DACs. Anybody have experience with them?

- Audio GD NFB 3.1 or NFB 12.1

- Schitt Bifrost

- Grant Fidelity Tube DAC-11

All almost same price except the 12.1 being the cheapest.

I like smooth sound. Don't like digital sound. If I should give an example (some may not be familiar). A lot people loved the California Audio Labs CD players but I found them detailed but too detailed where it was kind of edgy. I liked the sound of Audio Refinement Complete CD player which was not as detailed but sounded smooth.
Thanks!

[gooberdude]

I doubt you can go wrong with any of them, seriously. 

I've had the dac-11 only 2 weeks now, can say w/o hesitation that its not digital or cheap sounding.  pretty amazing for $325 really. 

never heard the others, would like to hear an audio-gd.

[MichaelHiFi]

I haven't heard any of those so not much help here other than seeing the Grant Audio gear in person and giving that equipment a good listening.

Call me impressed.

And it's has a tube output to boot? Wow...

[wushuliu]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Non-Oversampling-NOS-DAC-TDA1543-DIR9001-SPDIF-Coax-Optical-w-9V-NiMH-charger-/200625681707?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2eb638f52b#ht_3767wt_952

Seriously. I love Audio-GD and all, having heard a few myself, but... when it comes to smooth it's hard to be a NOS dac using TDA1543/41, PCM1704, AD1865, etc.

[celo]

Thanks guys!

Wushuliu, thanks for that link. That is a 16-bit and 96khz sampling if I understand correctly. How important is to get a 24/192khz DAC vs this one? I also saw that you are using this particular DAC now, I would like to hear your detailed thoughts/comparison.

If it is any help; I am planning to use the DAC connected via optical to Apple Airport Express and listen to music from my Mac, iPhone, etc. Later, I may get Logitech Squeezebox Touch.

[eclein]

Squeezebox Touch is an excellent device, its mentioned every year as one of the best streaming audio devices by many audio/audiophile publications. I enjoy mine everyday.....

[celo]

Squeezebox Touch is an excellent device, its mentioned every year as one of the best streaming audio devices by many audio/audiophile publications. I enjoy mine everyday.....

Speaking of Logitech ST. If I use a DAC, how would I benefit from the sound of the ST? I mean wouldn't any streaming player would do the same job? Is it a stupid question?

[kip_]

Speaking of Logitech ST. If I use a DAC, how would I benefit from the sound of the ST? I mean wouldn't any streaming player would do the same job? Is it a stupid question?

An external DAC may or may not sound better than the analog outs on the Touch. Some prefer the sound of a modded touch's analog outs to a lot of DACs. But a DAC will allow you to use any transport you wish and a modded SB Touch ties you to that platform.

[eclein]

The Squeezebox touch was made for audio thats why in my opinion it sounds so good , its easy as heck to use......I can control the music playing on a SB from an Android phone/pad, a pc/laptop,via included remote. The first time you sit in a recliner with a tablet on your lap running one of several different apps-some are free-and swype through your entire audio collection and with a touch play ANY song, any album, any playlist you'll understand. 

The DAC brings you more options and there are a ton of folks on here that are extremely knowledgeable about the device and its the best way to start into computer facilitated music. Best purchase in Audio I ever made......for $299 you have a device that outperforms many devices doing the same type thing at triple the cost and more.

There are also folks that can modify the device, its power supply,a bunch of things to elevate its already excellent rep. Mine is running wired with an upgraded linear power supply and minor software tweaks and it sounds just as good as my CD playback. Its the way things are going, jump now.....either way enjoy yourself!!

[Levi]

I would say for your budget, Grant Fidelity Tube DAC-11.  I knew several people who swear by this dac.

I am leaning towards these DACs. Anybody have experience with them?

- Audio GD NFB 3.1 or NFB 12.1

- Schitt Bifrost

- Grant Fidelity Tube DAC-11

All almost same price except the 12.1 being the cheapest.

I like smooth sound. Don't like digital sound. If I should give an example (some may not be familiar). A lot people loved the California Audio Labs CD players but I found them detailed but too detailed where it was kind of edgy. I liked the sound of Audio Refinement Complete CD player which was not as detailed but sounded smooth.
Thanks!

[eclein]

I have Grant DAC-09 and it has so many uses beside being a good DAC its totally worth the cost. Great customer service there also..

[celo]

What I was trying to say that if you use the digital output of the ST connected to the digital on your DAC, then what is the point? I am not trying to make a point, just asking to understand.

Also, as I said, I will be able to control/play my songs wireless via my iPhone, iPad, Macbook since Apple Express Wireless router can do Airplay. So, why would I need the ST, then?

I am not going to lie. Wushuliu's link is making to go with that route. At least to try it. It is $100! I just do not know if I play Lossless file, would I be better off buying a DAC that can do 24/192khz? I hope what I ask makes sense.

[Turnandcough]

What I was trying to say that if you use the digital output of the ST connected to the digital on your DAC, then what is the point? I am not trying to make a point, just asking to understand.

Also, as I said, I will be able to control/play my songs wireless via my iPhone, iPad, Macbook since Apple Express Wireless router can do Airplay. So, why would I need the ST, then?

I am not going to lie. Wushuliu's link is making to go with that route. At least to try it. It is $100! I just do not know if I play Lossless file, would I be better off buying a DAC that can do 24/192khz? I hope what I ask makes sense.

- The Touch(with or without external DAC) is still more convenient than a DAC + computer + USB converter + whatever else you use to control everything(Android, etc)
- The unmodded analogue outs on the SB Touch are OK but lack depth(2D).
- If you connect the digital out of the Touch to a decent DAC you WILL notice a difference.  The better the DAC the bigger the difference. I have decent sound on my plasma TV but if I want better sound I hook it up to a good stereo. If I had a cheap stereo it might actually sound worse. Same thing with source/DAC.
- A 24/192 DAC is only necessary if you intend on playing 24/192 material. Personally I can't hear a difference between 24/96 and 24/192.
- Which DAC to get? It's about like choosing a good bottle of wine. There are so many to choose from and while paying a lot gives you more options it doesn't guarantee you'll like the taste.

[Sonny]

I bought the Schiit and am very happy with it!
I Previously had a GF Dac-09 and the Bifrost is much much better.
Don't know how it compares to the Dac-11 though.
T

[charmerci]

Avoid NOS - non-oversampling DAC's.

Frank Van Alstine explains why in his Audio Basics newsletter -

  "The output of the CD player’s D to A
converter(s) contains a substantial amount of
44 kHz trash - essentially the “stairstep” sampling
frequency data along with the music.
This high frequency garbage would destroy
your amplifier and tweeters (and make all the
radios, TV sets, and dogs in the neighborhood
unhappy) if it got out of the CD player. Thus,
the output stage of the CD player must contain
filters for each channel to remove the 44 kHz
crud while retaining flat frequency response to
20 kHz.
The problem is that there are several big problems
with steep filter slope designs necessary
to kill the trash at 44 kHz while at the same time
preserving flat audio frequency response to 20
kHz.


(I just posted some of what he wrote. There's more in a link to his Audio Basics newsletter but this won't let me post the link.)

[mhconley]

Avoid NOS - non-oversampling DAC's.

Frank Van Alstine explains why -

...

When I listen to CD quality I prefer NOS; better to avoid CD quality recordings.  I have always hated oversampling whether it was done on a $300 CD-player or in a $6,000 DAC.   They all seem to add some kind of artificiality that I find grating.  Get a good 24/192 DAC and find as much high rez material as possible.  The Grant Fidelity TubeDAC-11 looks like a good choice:

Features:
   • No over-samping - input singal pass through at original sampling rate

Martin

[ecramer]

northstar 192 used and forget about the rest of the want a be's

[eclein]

24/192 is important if your buying now and trying to get some lasting power.....there is already a ton of hi rez stuff and a lot is 24/192 so get the latest and greatest....Once you hear hirez material, good hi-rez you may be hooked like I was....check out some of the stuff a HDtracks and see how much there is and it grows and grows...

[rajacat]

HDtracks needs to lower their prices before I'll be buying. Too much for just a download. For their prices you should at least get a physical copy. You can get new vinyl for about the same price despite vinyl having much higher production and shipping costs. The bulk of my purchases are used CDs with many available for cheap including classics from Blue Note, Verve, Concord, etc. if you're into jazz. Used pop/rock are even cheaper and with dbpower amp ripping is no problem even with less than pristine copies.

If I was in the market for a new DAC, I'd first and foremost be looking for one that does best with standard resolution CDs perhaps something like the Tranquility DACs. I've seen some of these going for $650 or so recently.

[OzarkTom]

HDtracks needs to lower their prices before I'll be buying. Too much for just a download. For their prices you should at least get a physical copy. You can get new vinyl for about the same price despite vinyl having much higher production and shipping costs. The bulk of my purchases are used CDs with many available for cheap including classics from Blue Note, Verve, Concord, etc. if you're into jazz.

I will second that, I have been buying too many good CD's at garage sales for 25-50 cents each, even Blue Notes.