[larevoj]

Hi James, I have a 4BSST2 and looking to improve the quality of sound from it. I am considering to purchase the Torus CS16 (International model) weighing 99lbs (45Kg) with 6 outlets to do just that - Torus's 6 benefits below:

BENEFIT #1 VERY LOW SOURCE IMPEDANCE AND HIGH CURRENT FOR THE POWER AMPLIFIER

BENEFIT #2 POWER SURGE PROTECTION USING SERIES MODE SURGE SUPPRESSION RATHER THAN MOV'S

BENEFIT #3 TOTAL ISOLATION FROM OUTSIDE POWER GRID

BENEFIT #4 HIGH POWER CAPABILITY

BENEFIT #5 LOW NOISE

BENEFIT #6 CLEANER POWER

With the above benefits it is without a doubt my entire system will improve with Torus installed since I can plug all my electronics into it. Here is my question....

How would a pair of 7BSST2 compare to a system with Torus installed with clean supply to 4BSST2 and all its electronics? If budget allows a pair 7BSST2 with Torus would definitely performs so much better over 4BSST2 with or without Torus so lets not get into this as it has no end. But will 4BSST2 with Torus better then a pair of 7BSST2? Also note that  4BSST2 with Torus CS16 cost more over a pair of 7BSST2. 

[larevoj]

Since James hasn't answer...anyone like to give this a shot?

[drummermitchell]

If I remember correctly,the newer amps have the  new Torus tranny's+newer caps.
The only benefit would be protection ect.
I have 28s with older tranny's,caps ect.I had asked James if I would benefit upgrading the tranny's ect.
If my memory is correct,James said no real benefit except on the protection side.
I do have three Torus(s),I was hoping James would have said that there was as I would send the amps in for surgery.
Maybe James missed something ,I'll wait for his response also as I want to spend some more coin .

[James Tanner]

Hi James, I have a 4BSST2 and looking to improve the quality of sound from it. I am considering to purchase the Torus CS16 (International model) weighing 99lbs (45Kg) with 6 outlets to do just that - Torus's 6 benefits below:

BENEFIT #1 VERY LOW SOURCE IMPEDANCE AND HIGH CURRENT FOR THE POWER AMPLIFIER

BENEFIT #2 POWER SURGE PROTECTION USING SERIES MODE SURGE SUPPRESSION RATHER THAN MOV'S

BENEFIT #3 TOTAL ISOLATION FROM OUTSIDE POWER GRID

BENEFIT #4 HIGH POWER CAPABILITY

BENEFIT #5 LOW NOISE

BENEFIT #6 CLEANER POWER

With the above benefits it is without a doubt my entire system will improve with Torus installed since I can plug all my electronics into it. Here is my question....

How would a pair of 7BSST2 compare to a system with Torus installed with clean supply to 4BSST2 and all its electronics? If budget allows a pair 7BSST2 with Torus would definitely performs so much better over 4BSST2 with or without Torus so lets not get into this as it has no end. But will 4BSST2 with Torus better then a pair of 7BSST2? Also note that  4BSST2 with Torus CS16 cost more over a pair of 7BSST2. 

No the 7B's would still be better because the transformers in the amps are closer to the output section so instantaneous current draw is better.

james

[werd]

Hi

I went this path and i was asking the same questions a couple years ago. I owned the latest 4Bsst/2 model and upgraded to the Torus at about that time.

The 4Bs and Torus's are made for one another. Its a must have especially in the 240v using the 4B. The Problem that one faces is - do i get into the 7Bs or do i stay with the 4Bs/torus for about the same money. (maybe a little less). Its a conundrum to say the least especially since the new 7Bs come with the torus transformers.

What you get with the 4B/Torus is ability to power your entire system with the Torus. Going the 7B path you don't get the Torus. The Torus is fabulous at hearing your system completely effortless soundstaged. The 7bs (new transformers) do give you that but its remarkable how much all your other components will suffer with not using the Torus. You will hear the loss of power in the front end. There is sort of house brand sound that the Torus offers that you lose in the other components when not using it. Its actually a step back imo.

I actually went with both. My tactic was to look for sales and get the Torus and a 14B in the house and see what i need and sell what i don't want or need. As it turns out my front end likes the Torus too much and getting rid of the Torus in place of the 14B was a step back sonically imo. So right now i own a 14B and a Torus 240.

Hope that helps.

[95Dyna]

I have the Torus CS15 and plug everything into it including my 7B SST2's.  The Torus definitely makes a big difference with the sources/BP26.  I have listened extensively with the 7's in and out of the Torus and overall all prefer them plugged in.

That being said, there seems to be a rash of threads/posts that in one way or another pose the question, "can a 4B be as good as or equivalent to the 7B if I do............(fill in the blank)".  First off, the 4B is roughly half the price of a pair of 7's so if you subscribe to the old saying "you get what you pay for" then you have your answer.  If not, consider that the 7B has twice the power supply capacitance of the 14B let alone the 4B.  If you use the 4B in bridged mono you may approach the power rating of  the 7B but each amp will see half of the impedence your speakers are showing them and will therefore struggle mightily in the presence of demanding loads at which the 7's would not bat an eyelash.  So, the 4B with or without the Torus is nowhere near the equivalent of the 7B.  I've said this in other threads so I'll say it again, IMHO the 7B SST2 is not only the sweet spot of the Bryston line it is the sweet spot of the entire amplifier world! 

[Levi]

I am confused.  I thought Plitron makes the power supply for 7b?!? 

[James Tanner]

I am confused.  I thought Plitron makes the power supply for 7b?!? 

Hi

Plitron makes most of the transformers for our power amps to our spec.

James

[SoundGame]

I am confused.  I thought Plitron makes the power supply for 7b?!? 

Levi - if you're still confused, it's because you should also be informed that the transformers in the Torus are also by Piltron.

[Levi]

Thanks guys.  I guess the statement below confused me. 

If I remember correctly,the newer amps have the  new Torus tranny's+newer caps.
The only benefit would be protection ect.
I have 28s with older tranny's,caps ect.I had asked James if I would benefit upgrading the tranny's ect.
If my memory is correct,James said no real benefit except on the protection side.
I do have three Torus(s),I was hoping James would have said that there was as I would send the amps in for surgery.
Maybe James missed something ,I'll wait for his response also as I want to spend some more coin .

[Deftone]

No the 7B's would still be better because the transformers in the amps are closer to the output section so instantaneous current draw is better.

james
[/quote]

James,if i understand correctly the Torus is of no benefit for the 4bsst^, except for power surge protection,etc...etc...So,would it be much better to plug in the 4b directly to the wall?

 

[larevoj]

Hi

Plitron makes most of the transformers for our power amps to our spec.

James

The 4BSST2 doesn't have Plitron transformer in it? If not what brand of transformer is it??

[James Tanner]

Thanks guys.  I guess the statement below confused me.

Yes I see your point. Plitron is Torus. 

James

[James Tanner]

No the 7B's would still be better because the transformers in the amps are closer to the output section so instantaneous current draw is better.

james


James,if i understand correctly the Torus is of no benefit for the 4bsst^, except for power surge protection,etc...etc...So,would it be much better to plug in the 4b directly to the wall?

No the reverse.  The 7, 14 and 28B have Torus type transformers. All the other models do not.

James

[SoundGame]

No the reverse.  The 7, 14 and 28B have Torus type transformers. All the other models do not.

James

Good to know.  So it sounds like the greatest benefit of the Torus would be to the amps and components with the smaller transformers and power supplies, diminishing rate as you move up the more robust power supplies.  I'm sure also that quality and stability of wall power has much to do with the added benefits of using a BIT.

[Thunder]

Think I will go with 4B sst2 because I prefer to bi-wire. Makes a noticeable difference to my ears...

[larevoj]

Hi James, any particular reason why the 4BSST2 do not use Torus??

No the reverse.  The 7, 14 and 28B have Torus type transformers. All the other models do not.

James

[James Tanner]

Hi James, any particular reason why the 4BSST2 do not use Torus??

Yes - we have found that the smaller the power of the amplifier the less difference the Torus type transformer technology helps. So on very large power amplifiers like the 7B, 14B and 28B it makes sense to use this particular technology.

James

[SoundGame]

Yes - we have found that the smaller the power of the amplifier the less difference the Torus type transformer technology helps. So on very large power amplifiers like the 7B, 14B and 28B it makes sense to use this particular technology.

James

I'm a little confused 

If Bryston's conclusions based on trial indicate that using Torus type transformers begin to reveal their benefits only on the larger amps 7, 14 and 28, with substantially no nominal benefits below that range, does this also mean that the use of a BIT / Torus power isolation would only show improvements at the 7, 14, and 28 level?  That doesn't seem to make sense, since those amps already incorporate Torus transformers and if the reverse i.e. using the BIT/Torus power isolation benefits more on the amps without the Torus transformers i.e. 4B and down, then why not just incorporate that transformer technology directly into those amps, resulting in performance improvements that are noticeable?

Simply put - in which applications would the BIT / Torus provide the greatest benefit - with the larger amps or with amps the size of the 4B and smaller?  As well, what is the benefit with using the Torus with other Bryston source components?

I think it also needs to be said that BIT/Torus will benefit the most where the incoming wall power is poor with less benefits when you have more consistent incoming voltage from the wall and cleaner power e.g. dedicated circuits.

[James Tanner]

I'm a little confused 

If Bryston's conclusions based on trial indicate that using Torus type transformers begin to reveal their benefits only on the larger amps 7, 14 and 28, with substantially no nominal benefits below that range, does this also mean that the use of a BIT / Torus power isolation would only show improvements at the 7, 14, and 28 level?  That doesn't seem to make sense, since those amps already incorporate Torus transformers and if the reverse i.e. using the BIT/Torus power isolation benefits more on the amps without the Torus transformers i.e. 4B and down, then why not just incorporate that transformer technology directly into those amps, resulting in performance improvements that are noticeable?

Simply put - in which applications would the BIT / Torus provide the greatest benefit - with the larger amps or with amps the size of the 4B and smaller?  As well, what is the benefit with using the Torus with other Bryston source components?

I think it also needs to be said that BIT/Torus will benefit the most where the incoming wall power is poor with less benefits when you have more consistent incoming voltage from the wall and cleaner power e.g. dedicated circuits.

Correct - in my opinion there is no advantage to the BIT if you are using the 7B, 14B or 28B when it comes to instantaneous current draw.  In fact having the Torus transformer internal to the amp works better when it comes to instantaneous current draw. There are customers that feel the Torus or BIT helps with 7B, 14 and 28B's so that may be a debatable point.

That being said the BIT still provides over load Protection and Noise filtering with all sources plugged into it.

Hope that makes it clearer.

james