How Too Isolation Feet

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moray james

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How Too Isolation Feet
« on: 4 Feb 2003, 10:20 am »
Audio Isolation Feet – “The Nuts and Bolts of a Fine Audio System.

   There are very many  products on the market which promises to support your speakers and components and enhance their performance. Some are “Toes” that tip, some are “balls” that roll some are pods that “squish”. Some people swear by one brand or the other for one application or the other. Most do make changes but not always for the better. There are far more bad devices than good ones. The reason their performance varies so much has to do with numerous reasons. The esthetics of the finished product is one of the major reasons for this as is a sad lack of understanding of materials and the mechanics of the task at hand for the product.
   I present here a very simple “How Too” project for audio “Nuts” who want to improve their systems but have been “burnt” in the past with expensive toys that did not deliver or who just don’t have the money to experiment. The devices described here came into being as a direct result of Louis’s Omega speakers. The Omega’s are so revealing that many of the sonic traits people attribute to them are actually artifacts of their own system that the Omega’s reveal. It’s the old double edge sword because you get both the good with the bad. The good news is you can always clean up a lot of the bad. The even better news is that this project will cost you less than a Latte and cookie at Starbucks.
   Please do not let the seemingly very simple appearance of these devices fool you. While they are definitely low tech in their composition of parts they are far from simple in their actual functioning in how they do what they do. Much serious consideration has been given to enable the incredible performance of which they are capable. Do not “second guess” the design as it is carefully balanced, each and every material is crucial to how these devices work. Don’t decide to “improve” the parts for what ever reason. Build three sets and give them a good listen then if you wish to experiment. You can share you findings with the group. I won’t go into the why of the materials or how they function here. If you have burning questions about how and why please build a few sets first then ask. I do also plan to do a pictorial on the assembly procedure later.


Parts List for three sets       (two sets for your speakers and one set for your CD)

9pcs.     ½ inch flat washer
9 pcs.    5/16 inch flat washers
9 pcs.     5/16 inch nylon locking nut   (steel nut with an inset nylon locking ring)  
Quality PVC electrical tape recommend “Temflex #1700 by 3M electrical products
Slow cure epoxy glue suitable for steel (hard cure epoxy, no quick,5-min types)
Tooth picks for mixing and applying epoxy
Razor knife to trim electrical tape
Small can black Epoxy spray paint
Small package of “Mortite” or window glazing putty or “Dap 33 Glazing Putty”
Construction Details

Look at the washers carefully and you will notice that they are actually punched out of flat sheet stock. You can tell this by the fact that one side of the washer has smooth rounded over edges while the flip side has a sharp edged. You need to know which side is which as they will be used in a specific orientation.
   Take the larger ½ inch washers and place a piece of electrical tape over the center hole on the side with the smooth rounded edges. Place these washers tape side down on a smooth flat work surface.
   Next take the 5/16 inch locking nuts and insert one into each of the ½ inch washers so that the nylon locking ring points upward. You will need to give a good firm push to place these nuts. Should the nuts prove to be a bit snug just give them a light tap down with a hammer. The nuts must be inserted so that they are square in the washer’s hole and flush with the back side of the washer.
   Mix equal parts of the epoxy very well for one minute. With the tooth pick you will take the epoxy and fill in the small gaps left around the nut in the washer hole. You can be generous here and build up a small fillet of epoxy around the nut but don’t go overboard. Let the epoxy set for at least three hours then remove the black electrical tape off the back side of the washers.
   At this point in time the epoxy should be well enough set up that you can handle the nut/washer combo without any problems. You will now pack the inside of each nut tightly with one of the above mentioned compounds. I will say here that the denser (heavier) the material the more effective the damping will be. This means that if you use a very dense window glazing putty you will damp out more energy than you would using the “DAP 33”. That said, of all the materials mentioned the “DAP 33” is the best overall choice as it will stay in it’s “plastic” form almost indefinitely while the other compounds will eventually harden and shrink away from the inside of the nut and so loose effectiveness. The packing compound must next be trimmed flush on each side of the nut.
   You now have to leave the units for about 24 hours for the compound to skin over. Next you will use your epoxy spray paint and spray at least three good wet thick coats but you must allow each coat to dry before you spray the next coat. Next you will turn over all the pieces and repeat the above procedure. In the same way spray paint all of the 5/16 inch flat washers. The epoxy spray paint effectively damps surface traveling vibration on the metal. Let dry (cure) for a couple of days.
   Once the spray paint has fully dried after several days (full cure will actually take a couple of weeks) you can now apply the black electrical tape. You will apply a full layer to the back side of the large ½ inch washer/nut combination. You will also apply a full layer to both sides of the smaller 5/16 inch flat washer. I usually apply the tape so there is a seam exactly splitting the diameter of the washer. Then trim off all the excess tape with the razor knife.
   Now you can use the “ISO” feet. The bottom of the lock nut sits directly in the smooth sided hole of the 5/16 inch washer.
   For speakers place one “ISO” foot at each of the front corners of the speaker and one “ISO” foot at the middle of the back of the speaker. There is a significant difference in sonic performance of the speaker system with the feet placed this way verses two at the back and one at the front. You need two at the front of the cabinet to deal with the full impact of the driver in the cabinet and sink it into the speaker stand. For your CD player you will want one foot directly under the center of the transport mounting area, a second foot beneath the power transformer and the third foot beneath the analog output stage. You will need to balance the whole player so that as you lift each corner of the player the balanced weight of that corner up on the remaining two “ISO” feet is about the same as each of the other corners. In this way you will have approximately the same amount of weight on each “ISO” foot.
   What will you hear? Better dynamics with improved bass weight. Smoother mids and high frequency. Improved depth and width of image and pin point stage presentation. Space and ambiance will also be very much improved.
   How do they compare to commercial products? You will all choose to make your own conclusion with respect to comparisons you make to other products. Lets just say that there are on the market now some cones with white marbles in them that sell for $275.00 US a set. These little feet significantly out perform the commercial product by a wide margin IMHO.
   One last word. These feet will take some time playing in your system before they settle down and physically mate together. At that point they stop moving and every thing just locks into place. This will take several minutes to happen and you can actually hear the improvement in sound as they lock into place.
   Have fun, save money, experiment and share your findings with the rest of the forum. Regards Moray James.

   I would like to add a small note. Should any of you have a wife or girlfriend who is good with finger nail polish then a couple of smooth coats in gloss black makes these things look very slick. The nail polisn is also probably a better surface coat than the epoxy spray as it will be thicker. The reason I recommended the spray was that it is easier to apply. Some how women have the inate ability to apply perfectly smooth coats of nail polish where men do not! Regards Moray James.

tmd

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How Too Isolation Feet
« Reply #1 on: 4 Feb 2003, 12:37 pm »
Moray,
It is really good to see you in the circle. Now others can benefit from your knowledge and experience also :D
Neil.

moray james

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The "Little People" have the very best stereo's
« Reply #2 on: 5 Feb 2003, 06:09 pm »
Quote from: tmd
Moray,
It is really good to see you in the circle. Now others can benefit from your knowledge and experience also :D
Neil.


Neil: thanks for the mail it's good to hear from you too! The reason that the "Little People" have the best stereo's is because they know all the little secrets. Top of the morning to you. Regards Moray James.

RooX

How Too Isolation Feet
« Reply #3 on: 5 Feb 2003, 06:23 pm »
I urge everyone to try these, as in my experience, they best pretty much everything else out there... at any price.

Worth every penny, and washer and nut.


cheers,
Colin

Carlman

How Too Isolation Feet
« Reply #4 on: 5 Feb 2003, 07:14 pm »
Please post a photo when you can.  I don't understand how this would absorb anything the way I have it in my head.
A sandwich of washer, nut, washer, filled with Dap 33 glaze?
 -------
  | | |
---------

Is that sort of it?  If so, there would be a solid metal column formed from the top to the bottom... maybe I don't get it... as I often times do not.

Thanks,
Carl

moray james

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How Too Isolation Feet
« Reply #5 on: 5 Feb 2003, 07:54 pm »
Quote from: Carlman
Please post a photo when you can.  I don't understand how this would absorb anything the way I have it in my head.
A sandwich of washer, nut, washer, filled with Dap 33 glaze?
 -------
  | | |
---------

Is that sort of it?  If so, there would be a solid metal column formed from the top to the bottom... maybe I don't get it... as I often times do not.

Thanks,
Carl

Hi Carl: I think that you get it right. Top washer with press fited locking nut (epoxied into place) extending out of one sideof the washer and (PVC tape layer on the flat side) (nylon locking ring pointing down toward botom base washer). The bottom base washer has a PVC tape layer on both sides which provides a near perfect interface between the metal surfaces as well as between the speaker cabinet and the foot as well as between the bottom washer and the top of the speaker stand.
   Build them and see how they work, they only take a hand full of hours to make and most of that time is in waiting for glue/paint to dry. PVC tape is Gods' own personal (almost free) gift to the audio world. It ca be used in so many applications and is in every way vastly superior to other products such as sorbothane etc.. There is actually all kinds of structural vibration going on in a simple device such as this and you need to damp it as best you can.
 Should you find that you need to introduce more loss (damping) into a system or additional height to allow this foot to lift your audio component up high enough to clear the manufacture installed foot on your CD player you can use additional base washers. Please note that you can go to far in this direction and will suffer loss of performance past a couple of extra washers. Further note that if an extra washer is needed to raise component height then DO NOT double up on any PVC tape layers. Only ever use one layer of tape between connecting metal parts or cabinet/stand parts.
 At the end of the day you would be best using only one base washer per foot and simply remove the components stock feet (tape them securly inside the component so you don't loose them).

In another post I will tell you how to find the magic spots under a component where these feet can work thier strongest charms on your gear. Regards Moray James.

nathanm

How Too Isolation Feet
« Reply #6 on: 5 Feb 2003, 08:45 pm »
Moray, a picture would be a worth a thousand words on this one!   :mrgreen:

moray james

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How Too Isolation Feet
« Reply #7 on: 5 Feb 2003, 09:12 pm »
Quote from: nathanm
Moray, a picture would be a worth a thousand words on this one!   :mrgreen:


Visualise a large washer perched on top of a locking nut (in this case the end of the locking nut with the nylon ring is facing down) (the top 1/16 of an inch of the lock nut is press fitted into the hole of the large washer above). The bottom part of the lock nut (which is curved round) seats snugly into the open hole of the smooth side of the bottom (smaller)washer. Pve tape is placed on the top side of the large washer and to both sides of the bottom (smaller) base washer. That is the basic idea. If you cant visualise this just take the parts list with you when you go to home depot to buy the parts and have a good look at them it is very simple.
Regards Moray James.

nathanm

How Too Isolation Feet
« Reply #8 on: 5 Feb 2003, 09:38 pm »
I hope I am not alone in seeing the irony of that last exchange!

Thanks again Moray, you just made my day! :lol:

ABEX

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How Too Isolation Feet
« Reply #9 on: 8 Feb 2003, 09:42 am »
Here's another Tweek you might not have heard about .This is saved from AA:
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/71904.html

========================================
My two favorite tweaks, especially cheap tweaks, are "stones and balls". I'll explain.
First, "stones". More particularly, large, heavy stone slabs. I place large marble slabs, weighing approximately 300 pounds, under each of my Martin-Logan electrostatic loudspeakers. If you've ever tried to floor-couple a light-weight speaker, like a ribbon or an electrostatic, you soon realize that no spike will do the trick with a carpeted floor. The answer lies in these slabs.

I deal in microscopes and laser systems and stone "tables" are used all the time for mass-loading. I managed to get my hands on a pair of these tables for dirt cheap at an IBM auction. I used the tops under my speakers. Ah, the change in clarity and bass extension was not subtle. In fact, it was like I had doubled my amp power and doubled my woofer size. Yet, the increase in clarity was the most amazing thing. As these were relatively flat slabs, they only raised the listening height 3" which is well within the "error range" of a M-L.

Since that time, I've experimented with mini-monitors, "maggies", other speakers whose inherent mass just precludes them from effectively coupling to the floor. The results have all been the same. You still you use spikes, but you spike to the slabs, not the floor. The slabs are heavy enough to couple to the floor without benefit of spikes.

Now, so you can't get ahold of microscope stands or optical tables? No biggie. Get "seconds" from your local mortuary stone mason - these go for dirt cheap if there was an error in the insscription (turn that side down). Also, can buy large slabs of flagstone out here in the west relatively cheap. Worst case, build a low, flat "form" out of wood and pour one yourself out of concrete. That works really great.

Now, onto "Balls". Again, one I learned from my work with high power microscopes and laser systems. Now folks, if you think vibration and resonance screws up audio, you haven't seen nuttin' yet. It REALLY screws up high power microscopy and precision laser work. For years we used to put microscopes under tennis balls - an old solution well-known for decades.

But something my dealer and scientist buddies couldn't believe was when I walked into an installation with a pocketfull of "superballs" purchased for a quarter a piece from a dime-store gumball machine. The more we worked with these "balls" under microscopes and lasers, the more we came to appreciate that their ability to "convert" energy into a high bounce to delight the kids was also an incredible ability to dampen and dissipate vibration and resonance.

I've used these under power amps (this is where they work so good it's sick) as well as source components. The best way is to "hard-couple" the component via spikes or whatever to a metal, wood, or ceramic "slab" then "float" the slab with super balls. Should have found a way to patent this - now there are countless microscopes all over the world sitting on plexiglass "slabs" de-coupled from the table with superballs.

Now, with a spherical "ball", it can be a bit tricky mounting it. I have found that a good, tough, "marine-grade" silicon cement will do it quite nicely in 95% of the cases. Yet, if you want even better adhesion, first adhere some type of constraining "ring" to the platform, let that dry, then glue the superball within.

How effective is it? Go back to the stone concept. My Martin-Logans are very hard-coupled to my two marble slabs. Proof of that is placing an accelerometer on the slabs of the floor. Big time coupling. Now, against all logic, my mono amps ARE ALSO on that same slab. Difference? They are hard-coupled via points to a small aluminim plate which is then placed on the marble slab de-coupled by the superballs.

Folks, one of the benefits of my business is that I have access to devices and instruments even Stereophile cannot afford. I have placed the world's most sensitive accelerometers on my amps, while my speakers were at redline, and could NOT measure a thing at any meaningful frequency. THAT is how effective these silly-assed superballs are. Man, they are so cheap, just try 'em. I mean really, four for a buck? Good, tough silicon cement is more expensive but not much more than four bucks a tube.

You know what you are going to find? Before the super balls I spent almost a hundred bucks for four "feet" from a famous manufacturer I won't name. Now, they're garbage. The superballs so outperform it is sick. And ultra-expensive Sorbothane concoctions? One helluva polymer, dead as the dinosaurs but still not measureably better than simple dime-store superballs.

So, stones 'n balls. Way cheap, way common, way effective.

- Mark Gdovin

moray james

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Hey thanks Mark very interesting! No doubt this works great
« Reply #10 on: 9 Feb 2003, 07:04 am »
Quote from: ABEX
Here's another Tweek you might not have heard about .This is saved from AA:
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tweaks/messages/71904.html

========================================
My two favorite tweaks, especially cheap tweaks, are "stones and balls". I'll explain.
First, "stones". More particularly, large, heavy stone slabs. I place large marble slabs, weighing approximately 300 pounds, under each of my Martin-Logan electrostatic loudspeakers. If you've ever tried to floor-couple a light-weight speaker, like a ribbon or an electrostatic, you soon realize that no spike will do the trick with a carpeted floor. The answer lies in these slabs.

I deal in microscopes and laser systems and stone "tables" are used all the time for mass-loading. I managed to get my hands on a pair of these tables for dirt cheap at an IBM auction. I used the tops under my speakers. Ah, the change in clarity and bass extension was not subtle. In fact, it was like I had doubled my amp power and doubled my woofer size. Yet, the increase in clarity was the most amazing thing. As these were relatively flat slabs, they only raised the listening height 3" which is well within the "error range" of a M-L.

Since that time, I've experimented with mini-monitors, "maggies", other speakers whose inherent mass just precludes them from effectively coupling to the floor. The results have all been the same. You still you use spikes, but you spike to the slabs, not the floor. The slabs are heavy enough to couple to the floor without benefit of spikes.

Now, so you can't get ahold of microscope stands or optical tables? No biggie. Get "seconds" from your local mortuary stone mason - these go for dirt cheap if there was an error in the insscription (turn that side down). Also, can buy large slabs of flagstone out here in the west relatively cheap. Worst case, build a low, flat "form" out of wood and pour one yourself out of concrete. That works really great.

Now, onto "Balls". Again, one I learned from my work with high power microscopes and laser systems. Now folks, if you think vibration and resonance screws up audio, you haven't seen nuttin' yet. It REALLY screws up high power microscopy and precision laser work. For years we used to put microscopes under tennis balls - an old solution well-known for decades.

But something my dealer and scientist buddies couldn't believe was when I walked into an installation with a pocketfull of "superballs" purchased for a quarter a piece from a dime-store gumball machine. The more we worked with these "balls" under microscopes and lasers, the more we came to appreciate that their ability to "convert" energy into a high bounce to delight the kids was also an incredible ability to dampen and dissipate vibration and resonance.

I've used these under power amps (this is where they work so good it's sick) as well as source components. The best way is to "hard-couple" the component via spikes or whatever to a metal, wood, or ceramic "slab" then "float" the slab with super balls. Should have found a way to patent this - now there are countless microscopes all over the world sitting on plexiglass "slabs" de-coupled from the table with superballs.

Now, with a spherical "ball", it can be a bit tricky mounting it. I have found that a good, tough, "marine-grade" silicon cement will do it quite nicely in 95% of the cases. Yet, if you want even better adhesion, first adhere some type of constraining "ring" to the platform, let that dry, then glue the superball within.

How effective is it? Go back to the stone concept. My Martin-Logans are very hard-coupled to my two marble slabs. Proof of that is placing an accelerometer on the slabs of the floor. Big time coupling. Now, against all logic, my mono amps ARE ALSO on that same slab. Difference? They are hard-coupled via points to a small aluminim plate which is then placed on the marble slab de-coupled by the superballs.

Folks, one of the benefits of my business is that I have access to devices and instruments even Stereophile cannot afford. I have placed the world's most sensitive accelerometers on my amps, while my speakers were at redline, and could NOT measure a thing at any meaningful frequency. THAT is how effective these silly-assed superballs are. Man, they are so cheap, just try 'em. I mean really, four for a buck? Good, tough silicon cement is more expensive but not much more than four bucks a tube.

You know what you are going to find? Before the super balls I spent almost a hundred bucks for four "feet" from a famous manufacturer I won't name. Now, they're garbage. The superballs so outperform it is sick. And ultra-expensive Sorbothane concoctions? One helluva polymer, dead as the dinosaurs but still not measureably better than simple dime-store superballs.

So, stones 'n balls. Way cheap, way common, way effective.

- Mark Gdovin

ABEX

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How Too Isolation Feet
« Reply #11 on: 9 Feb 2003, 07:09 am »
Moray,I am not Mark.But they are great tweeks that everybody should know about.In fact I just reposted that at AA for people that were asking about Viropods,what a ripoff!  :evil:

Thanks for reading it! :mrgreen:

ABEX

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How Too Isolation Feet
« Reply #12 on: 9 Feb 2003, 07:14 am »
BTW-I had always thought that Marble slabs would be great for Isolation and stability.That post verified that.The Superballs were unknown to me till then.
I might add that using the little round rings that come with the packs of 50-100 Imation CDR's could be superglued together to put under the superballs for stability.That I have not tried as yet,but it should work.

nathanm

How Too Isolation Feet
« Reply #13 on: 9 Feb 2003, 07:16 am »
How-to

ABEX

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How Too Isolation Feet
« Reply #14 on: 9 Feb 2003, 07:18 am »
Nathan--"how to what?".Do not understand what your asking clarification on.
ABEX

JohnR

How Too Isolation Feet
« Reply #15 on: 9 Feb 2003, 07:22 am »
He's just commenting on the thread title :-)

Bosh

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Great post, and great ideas.
« Reply #16 on: 14 Feb 2003, 06:14 am »
I currently "float" my spiked components on MDF "sandwiches", between which are Vibrapods.  I find this works very well, but the superball thing is worth a go.

Question:  How many do you use?  Three?  One in each corner?  More?

Thanks

-bosh

nathanm

How Too Isolation Feet
« Reply #17 on: 14 Feb 2003, 06:38 am »
Quote from: Abex

Now, with a spherical "ball", it can be a bit tricky mounting it. I have found that a good, tough, "marine-grade" silicon cement will do it quite nicely in 95% of the cases. Yet, if you want even better adhesion, first adhere some type of constraining "ring" to the platform, let that dry, then glue the superball within.


What about cutting a slice off the top of the Superball and making it flat?  Then I suppose the question is how to make a clean cut in a Superball?  I looked at this 10+ year old Superball I have (with the cool swirls inside) and it's all rotting and crumbly.  Perhaps there are some archival issues as well.  Heh!

JohnR

How Too Isolation Feet
« Reply #18 on: 14 Feb 2003, 06:40 am »
Quote
Then I suppose the question is how to make a clean cut in a Superball?


Laser?

nathanm

How Too Isolation Feet
« Reply #19 on: 17 Feb 2003, 04:18 pm »
What if you made a really super thick batch of finger JelloTM and coated it with shellac?  Anyone tried that for vibration absorption?  Sorbothane gel feet on the cheap!

I cut my Superball in half with a mat cutter razor blade.  Not very good; you'd need a blade that was large enough to do the whole thing in one fell swoop.  But on smaller ones it might work. This really put the kybosh on the bouncy fun-factor though. :bawl:

Great suggestion, John! I will purchase a cutting laser and tell you all how it works.  :wink: