Help with my room please...

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stlrman

Help with my room please...
« on: 1 Feb 2012, 09:51 pm »
I am in need of some advice for my room. The room is 14 wide 22 long which I think makes a decent size space on paper. 
I fire the speakers from the 14 ft. wide down the long way. It is our living room which opens right into our front door. The wife is a music lover and plays along with audiophile needs. So lets say I can do almost anything as far as treatments. It would be nice though if things were removable so I could take down some things for company etc.
The speakers are stand mounts and will go on both sides of our TV stand. Speakers are to be 7 to 10ft apart on 24 inch stands, listening position about 8 to 10ft back.
 Problems:  The right speaker when looking from the listening positon has no side boundary, it's an opening to our kitchen. I was thinking about hanging a heavy curtain to cover the opening , or a removable panel is maybe a better option. Also behind the right speaker there is a wall cut out space, but there will be a large armoir behind the speaker about the same same legnth back as the wall for the left speaker.
The left speaker has a wall, but a large window begins a few feet past where the speaker ends. I was thinking again a heavy curtain or a panel. There is a heavy lazy boy to the left of the left speaker.  I want to place the rather large subwoofer next to this lazy boy chair, so it is not blocking entrance to our closet. This would put the subwoofer a couple of feet in front and to the side of the left speaker. I would like to keep the subwoofer on the speaker plane , but this is not an option.
There is some heavy furniture around the room, and a book shelf on the back wall behind the listening chair. There is an opening in the back of them room as well This leads to the stair case and dining room.
I am planning on putting the tv on the wall, and I can have speakers about a foot in front of the TV cabinet if need be. I think I should cover the large glass coffee table with a blanket.  ?










Thanks in advance for any insight and ideas!
Todd



neekomax

Re: Help with my room please...
« Reply #1 on: 1 Feb 2012, 10:05 pm »
This might be silly, but have you considered orienting the seating towards the opposite wall than the wall that has the tv and hifi on it currently? Might take care of some of the symmetry issues you have with the current setup ('cutout' area especially). Or you could set things up on the long wall where the open doorway is?

stlrman

Re: Help with my room please...
« Reply #2 on: 1 Feb 2012, 10:18 pm »
Neekomax, I can not change the seating arrangement.

neekomax

Re: Help with my room please...
« Reply #3 on: 1 Feb 2012, 10:22 pm »
Hmmm, ok... seems like your options are a bit limited then  :scratch:.

S Clark

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Re: Help with my room please...
« Reply #4 on: 1 Feb 2012, 10:36 pm »
That room is going to be a bear to get close to right.  What about headphones?

stlrman

Re: Help with my room please...
« Reply #5 on: 1 Feb 2012, 10:42 pm »
Lol... Not an option
 I listened to my past speakers for a year in this space, and I heard nothing really aweful with the room.
I never heard boomy base, and I was able to get a center image and some soundstage. I thought with some or alot of treatments I could dial in things much better though.

jimdgoulding

Re: Help with my room please...
« Reply #6 on: 1 Feb 2012, 10:48 pm »
Are those your speakers next to your TV?  What is that on the right side of the TV, or, more importantly, how deep is it?  Bookshelf speakers like those pictured need to be on quality stands out from the wall, say 3X times their cabinet depth or greater and raised to ear level tho they may sound lighter, but cleaner, in the bass.  That should give your door clearance enough, too.  They should be seperated no more than the distance from each of them to your ears.  There would be less early reflection if your TV stand had open shelves.  That shouldn't cost you very much and you will have more appreciation of instruments in and of the soundfield germane to your recordings.  Questions?

Hipper

Re: Help with my room please...
« Reply #7 on: 1 Feb 2012, 11:38 pm »
My humble view. I'm not vastly experienced in this field but have gone through the sort of problems you may have. My final solution was radical, involving lots of acoustic foam and a digital equalizer, but you should be able to make good progress without resorting to all that.

You could put a sliding wooden door on the kitchen opening which if it locks in place rather then just hangs loosely should help.

Is two feet the recommended height of the stands for your speakers? Seems a bit low to me. It's often said the tweeter should be about ear height. Your speaker manufacturer should make some recommendations. Perhaps you could use some temporary stand creation to use for your initial set up trials so you can vary the height a bit.

As the furniture can't be moved, the only way to try and get a good sound at your listening position is to move the speakers about. It may be that once you find the best location for the speakers that they will be in an inconvenient location. All I can suggest in that case is to mark that position and move them into place when needed. There is plenty of info on the net about 'speaker positioning'. Here's one source:

http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/speakerplacement.html

It may be that once you have it right the speakers aren't exactly symetrically positioned - that doesn't matter too much. If you both listen at the same time you will have to check that the music sounds good in both seats.

What we are trying to do here is get the bass right. Particularly we are trying to stop it being boomy, the most likely problem.

If after lots of faffing about you still can't find a good location to give you satisfactory bass, and it remains boomy then maybe bass traps should be considered, or some sort of equaliser. You will need to identify the problem frequencies which likely are associated with your room dimensions.

Once the bass is sorted you can look at the higher frequencies where problems are likely to be caused by reflections or absorptions. Obvious problems would be the coffee table (i'd remove it for listening if you can. I notice you've got carpet there, which is good), absorption of sounds from the left speaker by the chair but reflection from the right speaker off the wall (first reflections). There may also be reflections off the back wall, then off the front wall and tv screen (secondary reflections), but I think this looks less of a problem. The side wall reflections/absorption are the worst here and you would need to make them symetrical. Probably best would be to have some sort of absorbent material in a similar location to the chair opposite.

Moving the speakers round is a frustrating and time consumming business but once you get that right, the rest is relatively easy.

S Clark

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Re: Help with my room please...
« Reply #8 on: 2 Feb 2012, 12:11 am »
"You could put a sliding wooden door on the kitchen opening which if it locks in place rather then just hangs loosely should help."

Now that's a really good suggestion, esp if you can make it solid core.

stlrman

Re: Help with my room please...
« Reply #9 on: 2 Feb 2012, 01:05 am »
Thanks for all the info so far! 
The speakers and set up in the pictures are just temporary. The new speakers will be on stands of course, on both sides of the tv stand.
I am thinking a pocket door would be very expensive. This is why I was thinking more toward a movable panel.
Todd

S Clark

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Re: Help with my room please...
« Reply #10 on: 2 Feb 2012, 01:11 am »
A panel could be superior to a door, as you could make it very dead, yet dress it up for WAF. 

dBe

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Re: Help with my room please...
« Reply #11 on: 2 Feb 2012, 01:30 am »
Thanks for all the info so far! 
The speakers and set up in the pictures are just temporary. The new speakers will be on stands of course, on both sides of the tv stand.
I am thinking a pocket door would be very expensive. This is why I was thinking more toward a movable panel.
Todd
Todd,

A pocket door is a great idea for the kitchen opening IF you get a really good one with hardware (sliding track and rollers) that will withstand the LF energy.  Leaving room in the frame for some mass loading would be a really good idea.  A 3/4" thick piece of Medex or Madf would do the trick.  The sidewall reflections are pretty easy to handle with absorptive or diffusive panels, remember that symmetry is a must for a good image.

My listening room is quite similar in the it is 20'4" x 14'0" x 8'0" and the imaging in the room is astounding.  Also the LF extension is quite good.  Your room will be very good to 25Hz before fully transitioning to pressure mode. 

You can PM me with any specific questions.

HTH.

Dave

stlrman

Re: Help with my room please...
« Reply #12 on: 2 Feb 2012, 02:17 am »
Thanks Dave.