[Gopher]

THANKS FOR KEEPING YOUR EYES OPEN EVERYONE.

I've been growing increasingly satisfied with a Melody MK88 unit I picked up from our boy, Hugh at Angel City Audio and have decided to hold off on the Rogue as this thing is great.

Thanks for all alerts guys!

[Gopher]

Its funny how these are everywhere when I'm not looking for one.

[Ericus Rex]

Yep, there were 3 on agon just before they switched to their new look.  Your patience will be rewarded...eventually.

Did you see the Rogue Tempest III on Agon?  I honestly think it's the better amp of the two.

[decal]

I'd opt for the Tempest also. I own a Tempest II Magnum and I never consider changing amps.

[SlushPuppy]

Yep, there were 3 on agon just before they switched to their new look.  Your patience will be rewarded...eventually.

Did you see the Rogue Tempest III on Agon?  I honestly think it's the better amp of the two.

Tough call. I like them both. $1800 is a great price for that Tempest III. It looks like it was just taken out of the box!

[Gopher]

Unfortunately that tempest opportunity was missed.  Does it have a similar presentation?  The rogue really gelled with my speakers well.

[SlushPuppy]

Unfortunately that tempest opportunity was missed.  Does it have a similar presentation?  The rogue really gelled with my speakers well.

Crap, lost my post on a "Connection timed out"

Anyway..... from memory: best midrange - Cronus. Best bass - Tempest. I'm pretty sure they both had stock tubes. Both were amazing for the money (had me shaking my head in disbelief) and I could live with either of them.

[rpf]

Crap, lost my post on a "Connection timed out"

Anyway..... from memory: best midrange - Cronus. Best bass - Tempest. I'm pretty sure they both had stock tubes. Both were amazing for the money (had me shaking my head in disbelief) and I could live with either of them.

The Tempest has a passive line-stage however (albeit with a pre in). How do they compare otherwise; in dynamics, etc.?


Eric, what differences did you hear (and with what power tubes)?

[Ericus Rex]

Eric, what differences did you hear (and with what power tubes)?

Sure, Rob.  I should say that I haven't directly A/B'd a Cronus and a Tempest.  However, I have directly A/B'd a Cronus Mag (EH KT90s) with a Stereo 90 Super Magnum (Gold Lion KT88 reissues) + Rogue 99 Mag combo.  The Tempest II & III are Stereo 90s with volume controls so the comparison should be comparable to the Tempest.  Do note that my amp has the Super Magnum upgrade.

The Stereo 90 has more of everything over the Cronus; wider and deeper soundstage, darker background, more realistic dynamics (even though both are 90 watts!), firmer deeper bass, more air.  By comparison, the Cronus is leaner, smaller sounding, with more compressed dynamics, looser and more rolled-off bass.  In general, the Stereo 90 sounds more 'effortless' and the Cronus sounds more 'delicate'.  Listening was done with Meadowlark Blue Heron 2 Speakers and Marantz SA-8004 SACD player.

I guess I shouldn't have said the Tempest was the better amp.  I should have said if your tastes run chamber music or very small-scale folk you may prefer the Cronus.  If you like rock or larger scale symphonic you'd definitely prefer the Tempest.  I could be happy with both amps but definitely preferred the 90.  Tempests are often better deals now since they've had very little press compared to the Cronus.  And the optional tubed-phono board (same as the board in my 99) for the Tempest is much better than the ss phono in the Cronus.  Cronus phono is good but not great.  That Tempest on Agon was a steal since it had the Super Magnum upgrade (well worth it IMO).  Maybe next time.

Hope this helps!   sorry for the dissertation....

[Gopher]

Very interesting Eric,

The tempest can't use different power output tubes like the cronus, can it?  Its stuck with kt-88s right?  I ask because I know my buddy said the KT-77s were unreal in the cronus.

Are the presentations the same as far as aliveness?  Compared to much of what I'd been listening to, the Cronus was an adrenaline shot to my somewhat polite speakers.

Also, can the Tempest 2 MAGNUM still use KT-88s?  I have some black treasure KT-88s I'd want to use rather than KT-90.  I know the magnum upgrades increased the versatility of the Cronus, not decreased.

[sunnydaze]

Very interesting Eric,

 ..... I ask because I know my buddy said the KT-77s were unreal in the cronus.

Correction.......KT-66's not KT-77's!     

The GL reissue KT-88 are also excellent in the Cronus Magnum.

[rpf]

Sure, Rob.  I should say that I haven't directly A/B'd a Cronus and a Tempest.  However, I have directly A/B'd a Cronus Mag (EH KT90s) with a Stereo 90 Super Magnum (Gold Lion KT88 reissues) + Rogue 99 Mag combo.  The Tempest II & III are Stereo 90s with volume controls so the comparison should be comparable to the Tempest.  Do note that my amp has the Super Magnum upgrade.

The Stereo 90 has more of everything over the Cronus; wider and deeper soundstage, darker background, more realistic dynamics (even though both are 90 watts!), firmer deeper bass, more air.  By comparison, the Cronus is leaner, smaller sounding, with more compressed dynamics, looser and more rolled-off bass.  In general, the Stereo 90 sounds more 'effortless' and the Cronus sounds more 'delicate'.  Listening was done with Meadowlark Blue Heron 2 Speakers and Marantz SA-8004 SACD player.

I guess I shouldn't have said the Tempest was the better amp.  I should have said if your tastes run chamber music or very small-scale folk you may prefer the Cronus.  If you like rock or larger scale symphonic you'd definitely prefer the Tempest.  I could be happy with both amps but definitely preferred the 90.  Tempests are often better deals now since they've had very little press compared to the Cronus.  And the optional tubed-phono board (same as the board in my 99) for the Tempest is much better than the ss phono in the Cronus.  Cronus phono is good but not great.  That Tempest on Agon was a steal since it had the Super Magnum upgrade (well worth it IMO).  Maybe next time.

Hope this helps!   sorry for the dissertation....

It does. And better too much info - which this wasn't - rather than too little. 

I wonder how much, if any, of the difference was due to the different tube types? If would be interesting to switch the power tubes in the two amps  and listen to the result.

I'm using Tung Sol KT120s in the Cronus Magnum (with socket extenders and enlarged chassis holes) and it was a very large improvement over Penta KT88SCs (I haven't heard the KT90s yet). Bigger soundstage, greater dynamics, more punch and air and a more even tonal balance: I found the KT88s produced an over emphasis on the bass leaving the mid-range and highs sounding a bit recessed. The 120s go just as deep but are just as prominent in the mids and highs.

The Stereo 90 and Tempest can use other tubes except for where they're too tall for the cover (like the 120s). You can always run it with the top off of course.

[Ericus Rex]

Right.  You can run any regular octal in the Tempest/Stereo 90 (6l6, el34, 6ca7, kt66-77-88-90, 6550).  You just have to bias a little lower for the first three options.

I now run KT90s in my Stereo 90 and they sound a little more like an EL34 on steroids to my ears; they retain the magic of the 34s mids but don't have that bloated, undefined bass.  They are a bit 'faster' cleaner and 'airier' than the KT88s I'd say.  At first they had a VERY full bass but mellowed out a bit after some hours.  Having spent time with the KT90 in my amp I think the sonic differences weren't due to the different tubes but due to the circuits and/or power supplies.

Answering about 'aliveness' is a little tricky.  It's hard to know if we're calling the same thing 'alive'.  Because of the 90's larger soundstage and increased air 'between' instruments and dynamic punch I'd say the 90 sounds more like a live performance than the Cronus.  I don't find the sound to be at all dull...in my system.

I believe the Tempests come with KT88s as standard and KT90s if you do the Super Magnum upgrade.  You'd have no problem using your Black Treasures with the Tempest II.

I wish I'd had some tube extenders when I had the Cronus.  I do have some 6L6s, KT66s and KT88s I'd have liked to try in it.

I've been very interested in that KT120 tube.  Thanks for the info on its sound!

[decal]

I spoke with Rogue last week and the KT-120 will be fine electrically speaking. The bias will be set the same as the KT-88. The only problem is the #2 socket is very close to the source selector rod so clearance may be a problem. I installed a set of Tungsol KT-120 in my Tempest II Magnum with no clearance problems.

[Gopher]

bump.

[Gopher]

Can someone with access give me the audiogon blue book value of these?  I think I saw the last one go with nice mods and tubes for $1200obo.  One posted today, but seller is looking for $1800 which one can buy new for...

[decal]

PM sent.

[sunnydaze]

Used Rogues typically sell in the 50 to 60% MSRP range. 

Cronus' seem to fetch a bit more, probably d/t very positive reviews recently.

[rpf]

Most have listed for $15-1600. What they've actually sold for, who knows, as A'gon's Blue Book is so out of date. Probably around $1400 going by the amount of time various pieces have taken to sell depending on the asking price. A guess, of course.

That one with the extra tubes, I think went for at least $1300 based on a comment the seller posted, IIRC. 

[sunnydaze]

$1300 = 59%
$1400 = 64%

Like I said, 50 to 60%, maybe a touch more for the Cronus models.

PS:  I emailed the AG seller who recently sold a 3 mos old Cronus Magnum w xtra tubes and he told me he got $1150 total, including s/h.  Killer deal!