[woodsyi]

Hey guys,

It's been too long to have a get together.  Let's have one.

Rollo is bringing over his qøl™ signal completion stage made by BSGT.  I heard it at RMAF and heard some difference.  I couldn't make up my mind whether I heard an improvement or a different gimmicky sound.  The difference I heard was striking enough for further examination.  Now I get a chance to audition the unit in my room with music I am familiar with.  You are cordially invited to share the experience. 

There have been a few changes to my system since the last get together like a Soundsmith Stain Gauge system for phono #2.  It's pretty cool to compare it to a standard set up.  Purity Silver Statement is the preamp and Art Audio Concerto Plus Monoblocks are subbing for the Hurricanes which are in need of repair/service.  I will serve food and the usual beverages.  PM me for directions and RSVP.

[Dave G]

Thanks for the invite -- it has been too long.  I've been wanting to hear your system with the Purity Silver Statement pre anyway.  Hearing what the qøl™ signal completion stage can do will be fun, too.  I'll check our schedule and let you know whether I can come.

Dave

[woodsyi]

I have tracked down some reviews on line as they trickle in.  Responses vary but I am going to keep an open mind as to what qøl™ Signal Completion Stage does in my system.  TAS and 'Gon posters think it's a big deal and one recording engineer thinks it's much ado about a regurgitated stereo field processor in an expensive box.  Well, I will be all ears.  I will put together a playlist of varying quality in CD, digital (red book and 24/96) and vinyl formats.  You are welcome to bring any music you particularly want to listen through this device.   

[Dave G]

I'll be there, probably on the early side.  I may bring some music, but I always like the stuff you play -- even the opera.

Who else is coming?  Doug?  Scott?  Bunky?

Dave

[woodsyi]

Doug and Scott and maybe Stan (with another Scott) so far.  Scotty may come with Charles.  I am not sure about the logistics there.

Anybody else game?  You are welcome to drink up my beer and wine.

[Letitroll98]

Sounds interesting, what area are you located in?

[doug s.]

rim lives in vienna, va

doug s.

[woodsyi]

It was great to meet Charles and his friends (one from NY and one from DC) in person.  We had a good time just shooting the breeze about everything under the sun with hors d'oeuvres and libations before going down to listen to music.   Charles had a bunch of items including a Neko DAC which I am on the list for audition later.  As it turned out we never got to the DAC as we were preoccupied with the qøl™ Signal Completion Stage.  I will get my time with the Neko DAC later. 

Qøl™ Signal Completion Stage.

We listened to various cuts on vinyl and CD to get everyone familiarized with my system.  Then we put in the qøl™ Signal Completion Stage between my preamp and active crossover and listened while using the bypass button to instantly switch back and forth.  Although there is not supposed to be an actual gain stage in the qøl™ Signal Completion Stage, the result is that you get a volume increase with it in (or is it a loss on the bypass)?  Hmmmm, more on this point later.  So we had to juggle with the preamp remote to match the volume on every switch.  This made it less than ideal to instantly hear the difference.  Over the course of the evening, consensus was forming that qøl™ Signal Completion Stage outputs better music than the output from its bypass mode.  What I heard was more coherent mid/highs and better (sound stage) depth definition with it.  It was similar in improvement as the one I got when I added the first reflection point treatments.  I remember talking to Ethan from Real Traps about hearing more details after adding the absorption panels and this was like that.  It was also independent of the source:  I heard the same difference from both CDs and LPs.  One interesting fact was the "enhancement" of ticks and pops on a bad record.  I played an old Appolo recording of "In the Upper Room" by Mahalia Jackson and it has some ticks and pops.  These were very much magnified by the qøl™ Signal Completion Stage -- enough that the overall presentation was better without the qøl™ stage.  The tonality did not seem to change much.  Pre Colombia Mahalia still sounded powerful with or without the qøl™.  I wonder how this fits into the bigger picture here....

Toward the end of the evening it occurred to us that the bypass mode on the qøl™ Signal Completion Stage may not be so transparent.  If the bypass mode is not transparent, then the result of the direct comparison between the qøl™ Signal Completion Stage and its bypass loses its bearing.  So we listened to a few tracks before (in both modes) and after completely removing the qøl™ Signal Completion Stage from my system.  My impression is that the qøl™ Signal Completion Stage improved the music from having nothing.  And nothing is better than bypass, meaning the bypass mode degrades music.  I would need more time with the qøl™ Signal Completion Stage in my system to be completely sure, but my initial judgement is that it enhances music playback (in my system).  If they streamline the interface without all the inputs and thereby lower the cost  I would be all in.  As it is, I may have to get one.  The last impression of the eveing was that my system without it was lacking somewhat....


Thanks Charles for letting me hear it in my system and everybody else for sharing the experience. 

P.S.

Black Cardigan (Charles?) and a bag of LP/CDs (doug?) were left behind.

[doug s.]

hi rim,

thanks once again, for being an exemplary host!     and yes, please don't let that bag-o-software get lost in your collection!   

to comment on what i heard, i must, for the most part, echo what rim said, re: the qøl.  it definitely sounded better w/it in, than when it was set to bypass.  even tho gain matching was difficult, due to its effect on gain.  and, i also believe that its bypass mode is not as transparent as when it's not in the loop at all.  one cd i brought, that i am familiar with, yust didn't sound right when in bypass mode - a bit of harsh glare that i have never heard.  ideally, imo, this dewice would be used in a system that had a tape loop, so it could be completely out of the signal path when not in use, or for comparison - truly bypassed. 

for me, it was not as clear cut, how much of a positive effect the qøl had.  rim said he thinks he would need more time w/the qøl in his system to be sure; i know i'd need more time.  basically, what we did at the end of the evening, was to listen to one ~5min segment of a miles davis tune on cd w/the qøl engaged, a tune i have heard, but not a recording i am intimately familiar with.  then, we unplugged the qøl - which meant disconnecting the ic's, as it was installed between preamp and x-over in rim's triamped system, and then reconnecting the preamp directly to the x-over.  no quick flipping of a switch for this change.  then, we listened to the same 5min segment.  i am not sure much if anything was lacking, i comparison.  but, tho i have heard rim's system before, (not w/his new preamp, tho, which is superb!), i obviously am not intimate w/it, as well as not being intimate w/the particular miles cut...

an audition would definitely be needed in your home for an extended period, methinks.  and definitely - a simplified iteration - only one input and one output - is all that's necessary, imo.  cut its price in half, and i'd really wanna be checking one out in my own system.  hooked up to one of my preamp's tape loops!   

thanks again, to rim and to charles, who made this happen...

doug s.

[Quiet Earth]

Sounds like you guys had a nice time. 

Fwiw, don't wait for a simplified version from BSG anytime soon. They made it very clear (at THE SHOW)  that they want to license the technology, not manufacture the product. I guess as soon as a pro audio or high end audio company picks it up is when you will see the next version of QOL.

Otherwise it will be on a laptop or Nintendo DS or a cell phone.

Interesting comments about the bypass guys. I hadn't thought of that when I heard it. (different circumstances too)

[doug s.]

Sounds like you guys had a nice time. 

Fwiw, don't wait for a simplified version from BSG anytime soon. They made it very clear (at THE SHOW)  that they want to license the technology, not manufacture the product. I guess as soon as a pro audio or high end audio company picks it up is when you will see the next version of QOL.

Otherwise it will be on a laptop or Nintendo DS or a cell phone.

Interesting comments about the bypass guys. I hadn't thought of that when I heard it. (different circumstances too)

this licensing info is good news, actually.  it means there's a possibility it will become awailabe at far less than half price, if it's licensed to others.  i would hope it to be offered as a stand alone product by one of the pro audio companies, as well as in computer/game/fone products.  personally, i see no use for it in any lo-rez type situation -why even bother?  if it's not offered in a simplified wersion by either bsg or a licensed wendor, it won't be something happening chez-sedon anytime soon...

doug s.

[Rclark]

 yeah if they can put it in a cellphone we outta get a less expensive box for our systems. Interesting that you had slightly different impressions though.

[doug s.]

yeah if they can put it in a cellphone we outta get a less expensive box for our systems. Interesting that you had slightly different impressions though.

it's not that i had slightly different impressions; it's more like i wasn't sure i was hearing an improvement or not.  i'd need more time.  only one 5 minute song wasn't enough for me to be sure.  if the qøl were connected to a tape loop, it may have been easier to a-b.  or if it were material i was more familiar with, or if it were my system...  but i definitely felt the bypass of the qøl was not transparent...

doug s.

[Quiet Earth]

Yeah, it is good news in the cost regard Doug, I just think that it will be a while before we see a streamline box. It will definitely be cheaper.

As for the lo fi application,,,,,, if it is done cheaply (way cheap!) then the benefit is actually the greatest. No one had to strain to hear the improvement with the online demo on their laptop did they? The big companies like Intel (etc.) are already working with DSP companies to improve the audio in their products. If they can get a little more market share with better bragging rights on sound quality, then they are all over that.

Stay tuned ....

[Quiet Earth]

Btw, I had the same experience as you at the show. Not sure I heard anything. Maybe the better the system, the less you need it?

[catastrofe]

Regarding record noise, here are some footnotes from the owner's manual:

2. The q∅lTM Signal Completion Stage works with Line-Level Inputs only. If you play records, use the output from your phono stage, not from your tone arm. With records that are in poor condition, you may want to use the Bypass feature of your q∅lTM Signal Completion Stage (see Bypass, p. 9). q∅lTM Signal Completion Stage technology brings out everything and poor surfaces may include noises you do not want to hear.

3. If you listen to vinyl, depending on your cartridge and tone arm, the additional information may result in more sibilance or “crunch” than you heard before. Some adjustment of VTA (Vertical Tracking Angle) or VTF (Vertical Tracking Force) may be worthwhile.

[mix4fix]

What day?

[doug s.]

Regarding record noise, here are some footnotes from the owner's manual:

2. The q∅lTM Signal Completion Stage works with Line-Level Inputs only. If you play records, use the output from your phono stage, not from your tone arm. With records that are in poor condition, you may want to use the Bypass feature of your q∅lTM Signal Completion Stage (see Bypass, p. 9). q∅lTM Signal Completion Stage technology brings out everything and poor surfaces may include noises you do not want to hear.

3. If you listen to vinyl, depending on your cartridge and tone arm, the additional information may result in more sibilance or “crunch” than you heard before. Some adjustment of VTA (Vertical Tracking Angle) or VTF (Vertical Tracking Force) may be worthwhile.

the qøl was not inserted between source and preamp; it was used between preamp and amps.  (actually, between preamp and x-over feeding the amps.)  the fact that the mfr recommends not using the qøl for less-than-pristine records indicates to me that this dewice really does need to be used in a tape loop instead of in the direct signal path, as its bypass function is not transparent, imo.

doug s.

[rollo]

First off thanks to Woodsyi for putting the meet together and sharing his home with us. The wine the fod much appreciated. A wonderfull host. It was fun meeting the guys on AC.
    Woodsyi's system certainly did justice to the LPs and CD. Loved the dual TT setup. Heard some interesting new music and made friends, priceless.
    The bypass mode really is for LPs that are a severely scratched. Frankly I would eliminate it. When Qol is engaged is what it is all about. However it is SO hard not to do direct comparisons with the handy dandy remote. Since amplitude is increased anywhere from .5DB to 4 DB on a given recording when phase is corrected by Qol the difference is staggering and hard to truly evaluate for comparison purposes. My opinion anyway. When all is in proper phase volume is increased similar to when subwoofers are in proper polarity. We perfer listening to music for a while without Qol then insert the unit and relisten with Qol engaged. Personally I believe the switching back and forth is tough act because of the volume difference. The brain has issues.  Line level matching would be best for back and forth evaluation. In our experience the quality of the system does not matter. However using the same ICs throughout helps in evaluation. The bypass mode may slighly change the source "jury still out" . Using the Tape loop just may be the ticket, thanks Doug, next time around.   Again guys it was a blast. Will be back down in July for the Washington Audiofest as we will be in the DIY room. Hopefully a trip in between will happen. Love to see you guys again.

charles



charles
   

[doug s.]

What day?

11 feb 2012.   

doug s.