[josh358]

From Mundorf capacitor datasheet. Replacing steel with copper conductors WILL make an audible difference!

No steel
From now on, steel connectors are a thing of the past at MUNDORF because the use of steel as material for connectors
[word-wide standard for snap-ins] has many disadvantages: Among other things, steel connectors cause unwanted eddy
currents due to their magnetic properties, have a poor electric conductivity [σ25°C 6.2MS/m = 10.7% IACS = 160mΩ*mm2/
m] and a low thermal conductivity [λ25°C 50W/(m*K)]. In addition, the high elasticity [200 GPa] and hardness [7 Mohs] of
steel snap-in clamps are a permanent stress for the soldering joint which might reduce the quality of the joint.

Dave, none of that means that you'll be able to hear the steel connectors that Magnepan uses. There simply isn't any engineering reason why you would. The eddy currents don't matter, the conductivity doesn't matter, and the hardness doesn't matter in that application.

[DaveC113]

Dave, none of that means that you'll be able to hear the steel connectors that Magnepan uses. There simply isn't any engineering reason why you would. The eddy currents don't matter, the conductivity doesn't matter, and the hardness doesn't matter in that application.

I guess you just need to try it and see for yourselves...

[SteveFord]

Which binding posts will fit without drilling out the existing plates?

[berni]

Which binding posts will fit without drilling out the existing plates?

Almost all, the hole has a diameter of 9.6mm and are 19.3 mm apart.

[berni]

A home made adapter to screw the banana to the XObox.

[jk@home]

I recall when I first had my MMGs, I broke the steel set screw in the posts a few times before I got smart and replaced them with the case harden steel version of the same size thread. If you had those same posts on your 3.7s, that pretty pitiful for something that cost 10x as much as the MMG.

Looking good on the new mods! Did you replace any of the crossover components with something more "boutique"?

[berni]

This are 20.1 not 3.7 .

[berni]

Xovers done.

[peechus]

Am considering new binding posts for my 3.7 maggies. Can quality after-market binding posts improve the sound over the cheesy steel thingy that Magnepan uses.

  It's been some time since my posting and much has been accomplished.  The answers generally were yes, a few why bother. For those "why bother " dudes, how 'bout solid delivery of all the sound.  The project included discovery that furthered the gilding of the lily. You have to remove the panel first and there the first happy to arrive was a bunch of loose crimp-on female spades. I knew right then I had a winner just fixing the futchups.  Emboldened I dared clip out the mid and tweet jumper posts along with the midrange fuse. Safety demanded the tweet fuse remain. A lot of cold steel was removed and a couple gold plated female spades substituted. The binding posts, WBT NEXTGEN copper,  requires the Maggy holes to be enlarged. The proper size drill bit had to be ordered. Soldering the bypassed jumper wires and a touchup here and there with Cardas solder and a couple pieces of some pocc hookup wire finishes it off...SOLID.

[berni]

Exactly.
Not only solid deliver of all the sound  it should be done like this leaving the factory...


Any audible effects? Of course in my case it is 3x more binding posts involved due to the outboard XO. But after  I am finished it will be far less..

[berni]

Done.

[glynnw]

Wow!  Major league audio porn.  Makes my work look pathetic. Thanks for the pics.

[SteveFord]

Berni always does really beautiful work.
Aesthetics aside, can you honestly say that there's any improvement in the sound quality from that?

[srb]

Aesthetics aside, can you honestly say that there's any improvement in the sound quality from that?

I don't think you could find anybody who has invested time and materials to that extent that wouldn't hear an improvement in sound quality!
 
I know when I wash and wax my car I'm certain it really does run smoother, but kidding aside, at least here there is a scientific basis, both mechanical and metallurgical, that would help to support any subjective assessment of improvement.
 
Steve

[berni]

I got rid of some shit material in the signal path, call it what you like. It shouldn't be there, especially so many times .
If the make would be  different as Magnepan the majority here  would rip it appart in matter of seconds for that.
If you buy a speaker for more then 10k$ you would espect that you get what you pay.
.
The stands got me the biggest improvement yet, the cable thing is not such a huge thing but when you count all the pieces together , which were over seen or ignored....

[josh358]

Well, there are a lot of things Magnepan could do better, but not at that price. So while I'm not a big fan of their connectors and jumpers, having wrestled with flaky connectors on my 1-D's and the annoying Allen screws on my MMG's, I'm not going to get too upset over their barebones approach. Now if I saw this on a Magico, that would be another thing. But it isn't -- Magnepan sees itself as a value speaker company, delivering high end sound at a price everyone can afford. And those of us with the time and inclination to tinker can improve things to our heart's content.

Elegant work, by the way.

[berni]

@josh Thanks.

But not this costs again! 
Hey, I used 3 times less binding posts then the original. So in my eyes the better posts costed the same as the original ones.
And with the new xx.7 the stainless outboard XO box is not used anymore, also less material, less binding post .. But the price went slightly up. Costs?  They could if they wanted to.
The problem is elsewhere. 
Why is it  a different story if it is Magico? The Magico sounds like shit even with superb posts, why not having it all at MG?

[josh358]

The 3.7's drivers cost more to make, because labor costs are higher to lay down foil than they are for the wire. That's also why the new MMG's still have (I think) wire. Also, they upgraded the caps in the 3.7's, I assume the new ones cost more. And there's a new tuning arrangement on the diaphragm, not sure if that adds to the cost. Then you have to take into account inflation. I'm not sure if that completely balances the cost of the external crossover box but I don't have the impression that anyone is getting rich, in fact they like to joke about how cheap they are. If you talk to Wendell or Mark or Jim Winey, they'll tell you that their philosophy is one of selling many moderately-priced speakers, rather than a few highly-priced ones, as most other high-end speaker manufacturers do. In speaking to Wendell, I've seen how passionately he believes in this and how he fights to keep costs down and to maintain their reputation as a value manufacturer despite temptation.

Another thing is that the rule of thumb in consumer electronics is that selling price is 4-5 times parts and labor, so what's an inexpensive mod for us adds more than we'd think to selling price. And if you're selling a model at a price point, you have to consider what offers the most bang for the buck for the customer.

I mentioned Magico because I thought it was a good example of a cost-no-object high end loudspeaker manufacturer.  It was just the name that came to mind, it could just as well have been Wilson or any of the other costly brands.

But, the way I look at it, it's not so bad, because then we get to replace the binding posts, beef up the frames, and change the crossover components.

[berni]

I don't agree on that!
It would be ok for the MMG but not in the case of 3.x and 20.x. Period.
If you buy 1.090.298 feet and 8.888.889 binding post only to get a low price, you are stuck with them for the lifetime and thats the case here.

[josh358]

Well, I'm with you on the binding posts, I think the Allen wrench is a PITA. I'm not so sure about the feet, they did upgrade them in the 20.7's and I think going beyond that to do something that improved the sonics would add significantly to the cost. But they have a different perspective on this than we do, there are lots of things they could do to each model but they have to sell to a price point and their philosophy is not to do something unless it can be heard in blind tests, which I think is where much of their remarkable price/performance comes from. I think there are probably lots of things they might like to do, but based on experience, if you make a suggestion to Wendell nine times out of ten he'll say "too expensive." I've made about a million and its an education in the fact that their work is more challenging than ours is in that they have to work within strict cost limits. (Also in the fact that over the years they've tried pretty much everything we have.)

One thing we have to consider I think is that most people who buy Maggies are delighted with them the way they are, because they sound as good as speakers at twice the price. And for those of us who do a bit of tweaking or DIY'ing, they make a great platform for things that we can add for less than the factory can -- better connectors, crossover components, bi- or tri-amping, Mye stands or DIY stands, new frames, even upgraded drivers like I'm planning to put in my IVa's.