Another new tube amp guy...

SET Man · « **Reply #20 on:** 22 Jan 2012, 05:02 am »

Hey!

If you want to go with SET than you must have a pair will will work well with SET, especially with lower power SET amps. Otherwise it won't work well as a system together. Pairing SET amp with a pair of speaker is not easy but it is very important. High efficiency and being impedance are important. True SET lack power but with the right speaker it won't sound lacking at all.

As for SET amp. Well, they are more of them out there now a day. But I still can't see how those Chinese SET amps especially those on eBay can be sell for such a low price. I do have to say their chassis work look great. But what about more important things like output transformers quality? If the quality is not there than there is no point of using it. Look at those 845 amps for $500! A good output transformers for 845 tubes cost more than that! True that I've never heard them but I just can't see how they do it without cutting cost somewhere.

A SET done right can be costly. Anyway, as for those kit that you've mentioned. If I didn't have my SET amps that I have now I would have gone with the Audio Note kit... their Monoblocks look great.

If SET is a bit too much and you can live with something like 15wch than look for EL84 PP amp.

Take care,
Buddy

Martyn · « **Reply #21 on:** 22 Jan 2012, 07:52 am »

Hi, Buddy.

Well, at first a tube amp is going to have to work with the speakers that I already have, whether built, partly built, or waiting to be built - none was designed with tubes in mind, and I'll guess that they're all around 90 dB/W. If I get hooked, then no doubt I'll build something more efficient!

Here in the west we've lost track of the difference between cost and price. There are fortunes being made on the huge multiples that are being applied to the cost of products made in Asia. It's almost unbelievable how cheaply things can be made; we've just got used to paying stupidly high prices for pretty much everything we buy in the west. Quality is certainly an issue - I don't even bother using the halogen bulbs that come with Chinese-made light fixtures any more - but that's not to say that it's all bad.

The Audio Note gear is expensive, although they do have an EL84 integrated amp for $1,400, but it's just a black box - where's the fun in that? The Bottlehead is a maybe, as is Bob Latino's ST70 or one of the Decware products (maybe one of the little ones). Perhaps the fundamental question is whether I go for something long-term - relatively powerful (and probably relatively expensive) that will work with any of my existing speaker - or a low power SET and find some high efficiency speakers.

BTW, love your monoblocks...

Poultrygeist · « **Reply #22 on:** 22 Jan 2012, 01:12 pm »

My Bottlehead 2a3 Paramours and CJ preamp

Thirsty · « **Reply #23 on:** 22 Jan 2012, 03:35 pm »

Truthfully for the speakers you are going to drive I would suggest to not go the SET route at this time unless you're willing to get a set of high effeciency speakers.
I think you're best option is to go with one of the Bob Latino Dynaco clone kits or maybe to look for an old Scott 222 or 299 integrated amp and rebuild it, however that may be a bit intimidating for a beginner unles you're willing to do a lot of research first.

OzarkTom · « **Reply #24 on:** 22 Jan 2012, 04:28 pm »

You can also buy an original Dyanoco ST-70 for $400-500 on Ebay. When I was a Conrad Johnson dealer back in the 80's I took a stock Dynaco in on trade. That amp was better sounding than my in-stock CJ -45A and CJ-75A amps that were so highly rated. That shocked me.

Does Frank Van Alstine still modify the Dynacos? He modded tons of them back in the 80's.

Martyn · « **Reply #25 on:** 22 Jan 2012, 04:36 pm »

Thanks. I think the only problem with Bob's ST70 is that it has only one pair of inputs (I'd really like at least two). At least they're on the front and easy to get at, although my wife won't be happy with that! Also, the circuit board isn't very attractive...

Martyn · « **Reply #26 on:** 22 Jan 2012, 04:41 pm »

Buying an original ST-70 and then modifying looks like being at least as expensive as buying all new. Frank's basic kit is $450...

OzarkTom · « **Reply #27 on:** 22 Jan 2012, 05:35 pm »

Quote from: Martyn on 22 Jan 2012, 04:41 pm

Buying an original ST-70 and then modifying looks like being at least as expensive as buying all new. Frank's basic kit is $450...

Here is another best buy currently on Audiogon for $575. If you would like the magic of tubes but prefer more openess, detail. and transparancy, this integrated amp will give it This amp will even out soundstage all the tube amps $1000 or below. If you are using a Dac with volume control, turn the Ampino full volume and use the Dac for the volume. This will sound even better. There are many, many rave reviews in all the magazines on this amp.

Here is the Audiogon link.
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/453364

Poultrygeist · « **Reply #28 on:** 22 Jan 2012, 06:50 pm »

Being the DIY type you could easily build these efficient horns for $200 and spent another $250 for a Minwatt EL84 and experience the magic of SET powered full range single drivers. I've built these horns and they sound great and can almost cover 10 octaves.

http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeakers/FH/beta/frugel-hornMk3-1v0b-300911.pdf

http://www.ebay.com/itm/APPJ-EL84-12AX7-mini-tube-amp-Original-miniwatt-N3-/150650727840?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item23137bada0

Martyn · « **Reply #29 on:** 22 Jan 2012, 08:33 pm »

Thanks, Tom. The seller is limiting his sale to the USA; I'm in Canada. Also, this looks like a SS amp - I already have plenty of those!

Poultrygeist, the Frugel-horn is very tempting and easily built in a weekend, and I'm only half an hour from Dave at Planet 10. I couldn't find a FR curve anywhere...do you happen to know what the F3 is? Of course, my wife is going to say, "....and where are you going to put those?", so I'm going to have to let another pair go. Hard to do! Not so sure about the APPJ amp...I think I'd rather spend more to get more, as long as I stay more or less within my budget.

Poultrygeist · « **Reply #30 on:** 22 Jan 2012, 11:31 pm »

Don't know about the FR curve but there are huge glowing threads on the FH Mk3 on DIY Audio. You would want to go with the Fostex FE126en as it's much more efficient than the other driver options. Dave at Planet 10 has done some wonders with his "enabled" Fostex drivers.

The MW is an over achiever and the 6moons review compared the original's sound to a "lite up, fast as a whip, crystalline Decware". My friend has the newer EL84 and it's better than my original. I've compared the MW to HH Scotts, Dynaco ST70, Citations and Fisher 500's in my home and none came close.

Martyn · « **Reply #31 on:** 22 Jan 2012, 11:48 pm »

I don't set much store in professional reviewers with the exception of, perhaps, Stereophile, but if you've done direct comparisons yourself in your own home, that's different and, at the price, it might be hard to pass up...

sonicboom · « **Reply #32 on:** 23 Jan 2012, 01:52 am »

If your speakers are true 90-91 dB efficient, 20 clean tube watts will just about be adequate for the task, giving you peaks in the neighborhood of 103-104 dBs which should suffice unless you listen at really loud levels. In this case, take a look at Pete Millet's DCPP amp, which is a P-P pentode circuit using TV sweep tubes. This project is pretty well documented with a pcb available from the designer, it comes with a bill of materials and you can also buy a set of transformers specific to this design (both power and output) from Edcor. When all is said done the project would probably come in at somewhere between $400-$500. Not bad, considering (at the very least) the documented measured performance of this amp.

http://pmillett.com/DCPP.htm

Martyn · « **Reply #33 on:** 23 Jan 2012, 06:35 am »

Very interesting, thank you. I don't suppose you've heard this amp and been able to compare it to any others? I'll be away on business for the next two or three days, so I'll look at this more closely when I'm back.

Poultrygeist, I decided to buy one of the little Miniwatt amps just for the hell of it...it'll make a nice little desktop system if nothing else...

Poultrygeist · « **Reply #34 on:** 23 Jan 2012, 11:32 am »

Chinese gear usually comes with not so hot Chinese tubes so you will probably want to re-tube the Miniwatt. My good friend is a violinist with the Charlotte Philharmonic and his ears put food on the table. He's crazy about his El-84 Miniwatt driving Omega speakers.

My Miniwatt worked great with my Zu Omens, Tektons, and Frugal Horns. I now have it driving DIY Wild Burro Betsy's over SS powered Alpha 15A's in open baffles. There may be a picture of this combo in my gallery.

Poultrygeist · « **Reply #35 on:** 23 Jan 2012, 11:45 am »

To the right is the little silver Miniwatt driving the Open Baffle Betsy mains and super tweeters

Poultrygeist · « **Reply #36 on:** 23 Jan 2012, 11:57 am »

Picture of Miniwatt with Zu's and Tektons in background.

Poultrygeist · « **Reply #37 on:** 23 Jan 2012, 12:12 pm »

The rear view of this Miniwatt S1 ( 2.5 wpc ) gives you an idea how really small it is. The EL-84 version (3.5 wpc ) is slightly larger and has 4ohm taps. Big sound can come in small packages.

Lord Soth · « **Reply #38 on:** 30 Jan 2012, 11:56 am »

Quote from: Poultrygeist on 23 Jan 2012, 11:57 am

Picture of Miniwatt with Zu's and Tektons in background.

Hi there!

I recognise some of those monoprice RCA cables in your picture.

I have used them before and they are cheap and good.

Poultrygeist · « **Reply #39 on:** 30 Jan 2012, 01:09 pm »

To the left is the tiny silver Miniwatt driving Frugal Horn Mk3's with open baffle bass augmenters powered by a Denon AVR. The Miniwatt may look like a toy but it's a seriously good SET.