Looking for all in one cd player under $1500

rickweed · « **on:** 6 May 2004, 07:11 pm »

Hi,

The agonizing search for a cd player goes on. I auditioned an Arcam 73T and found it way too warm and felt like I was in the back row. Oh it sounded great with wonderful detail and soundstage, but just wasn't right with my system or for my ears. The Van Alstine T-Dac is outstanding, but I question the idea of a "cheap transport" as Frank suggests using. I have his amp and preamp in the latest and greatest fet valve configuration and love his product, but still, $1700+ for the T-Dac and then more agonizing over a transport? Maybe, if all else fails, but maybe not. I am looking for suggestions in an all in one unit in the $1000 to $1500 range new. I want something that will neither under or overdo it with my system. I am thinking maybe Rega, Naim, Musical Fidelity.

Rick

Carlman · « **Reply #1 on:** 6 May 2004, 07:27 pm »

I've heard very good things about the Naim players... specifically the 5i which has been reviewed in the Critic's circle. I too have been on the 'all in one' quest and have found some surprises along the way.

Depending on how your preamp and amp sound together will determine what kind to get. You'll really need to try the combo yourself.

I'm repetitively surprised at how good the Pioneer DVD player are, though. I had my transport modified by Dan at modwright.com. I was using a Museatex DAC until I realized I could get 95% of the performance of my previous DAC from the L&R outputs of the Pioneer 656a. Keep in mind, he didn't do any mods to the internal DAC's but did improve the power supply. So, it was a little improved over stock but not much.

I was considering APL's modified 563 but can't do it at the moment. Right now I have 2 Pioneer's... 1 is about 3 years old and running like day 1. The other is about 6 months old (mod'd 656a) and is also trouble-free. The sound is very good. I'd put my Pioneer against the MF and Arcam any day.... in fact, I have... but, older Arcam like the Alpha 8 which the Pioneer replaced. I had an even older Arcam Delta 70.2 that the Pionner blew away stock. I have not compared to the Naim or Rega.

However, I think if you buy Dan or Alex's modified Pioneers and you will NOT be dissapointed in soundstage depth, accuracy, or overall musical presentation.

WEEZ · « **Reply #2 on:** 6 May 2004, 07:40 pm »

Hey Rickweed,

If the Arcam sounded too 'soft' to you, then the Rega probably will too. I would recommend you listen to a Naim CD5i ($1650). A little over your budget, but has a good jump factor, while still maintaining a musical sound without rough edges. Well built unit also.

Or you could always do as Frank says, buy his TDAC for use with your existing transport- and have the DAC upgraded when the technology changes. That way, your amp, preamp, and dac can all be upgraded at the same time for megabucks!

just kidding,

WEEZ

jackman · « **Reply #3 on:** 6 May 2004, 07:57 pm »

I have a Response Audio RAM (Modwright modified) player with Bybees, and the new LC clock. It has everything that I love in a CD player. Although it has a tubed output it isn't too "warm" or soft sounding. Sounds very analog. I plan to compare it to a friend's Naim player but the test may not be a very good one because his system is all Naim (Flatcap, integrated, Neat speakers, etc.) and is set up for Naim gear. It seems that people who like Naim really love it. He is a real Naim believer. I'll keep you posted.

Jack

PS-Bill Baker is planning to open a location in Chicago where people can audition gear. I encourage anyone in the area to check out the RAM player. It's a real work of art.

electricbear · « **Reply #4 on:** 6 May 2004, 08:35 pm »

Have you considered one of the Roksan players, I haven't heard one in a while but if I remember correctly it sounded halfway decent. The Naim players I've always found work best in a complete Naim system , they seem to lose something when used on their own. The Arcam might be worth another look because of it's upgradability. Rotels new RCD1072 for the money is a great player, you could do it with some nice cables and come in under budget. The Musical Fidelitys are somewhat bright sounding but may be worth an audition if you feel your system sounds a little dark. If your system sounds forward I'd avoid them as you could develope listening fatigue.

Horizons · « **Reply #5 on:** 6 May 2004, 08:47 pm »

Agree with you on the Arcam. Good, but not great. Think I will go with Frank on this one.

I had a Rega Jupiter and was not impressed at all. Sounded slightly warmer than an old Sony that I had but not much better overall. OKAY sonically but ergonomically a real pain. Its audio quality is just not worth the $$ IMHO.

I agree with Frank that cheap transports are fine. I would get a decent transport that has the features you require and add the Nixon DAC. Well under $1K easy and will smoke the other players on your list.

MF players and DACs are grossly overrated in my humble experience. Have never heard a Naim.

nature boy · « **Reply #6 on:** 6 May 2004, 09:02 pm »

Rickweed,

You could always pair the Van Alstine T-Dac with a used Sony DVD-7000 or DVD-7700. These make for great transports according to several posters here and modifiers.

NB

WEEZ · « **Reply #7 on:** 7 May 2004, 01:12 am »

Two other options:

1) Needle Doctor in the Twin Cities carries the Music Hall player for $540; and the Creek CD53 player for $1599. Don't know if they would loan out a demo unit to try, or not. Might be worth a phone call or a visit to needledoctor.com.

2) Much has been said on the circles re: the APL modified Pioneer 563A. I don't discount anything that has been said about this player. The Pioneer transports are quite good, and should provide a decent platform for upgrades and mods- and for the asking price might prove to be a great player. I have heard the stock player and while not up to the standards of the AVA gear, was not bad. It reads all discs- even bad CDR's. Musical Concepts in St Louis also does mods on the Pioneer players, and offers at least two versions of modification- with prices including the player. I have not heard these players (APL or MC)- but it might be worth the research.
(musicalconcepts.com)

The point raised in a previous post re: the upgradability of Arcam players is a good one. I don't know if you can upgrade from a Diva series to an FMJ series, though.

Lastly, re: the Naim CD5i; this is a new player that doesn't require the DIN connection as some of the higher priced Naim players do. It has RCA connection analog outputs. It is a very musical player. Probably not the most accurate- but very analog sounding. If anyone likes the sound of good analog reproduction like a good turntable/cartridge combo can do; this is a player that should at least be auditioned in it's price range,IMHO.

Good luck, Rickweed. The AVA gear deserves a good front-end. Take your time and get the best you can..

WEEZ

rickweed · « **Reply #8 on:** 7 May 2004, 03:38 am »

My deepest thanks to all of you who responded and those who might still respond. I now have some choices to consider and I take all of your suggestions seriously, being somewhat of a novice at all of this. I found out tonight that the drummer in our "basement" band just bought an Arcam CD 23 that was for sale here. He said he will be glad to hook it up to my equipment when it comes. Who knows, that may just be the ticket with all the good press about that player. Thanks again to everyone.

Rick

Rysa4 · « **Reply #9 on:** 7 May 2004, 05:08 am »

Howdy.

I have a Jolida JD 100a with level 1 modifications from Parts Connexion in Canada. I am quite pleased with the results. Before purchasing I read up as best I could and listened to what others had to say and what I heard. I have not heard some of the other players mentioned here but feel that the modded Jolida compares favorably to the Rega, Musical Fidelity, and the modified pio 563a. Clearly an opinion only. Despite having a tube output stage, I dont find the results too warm or soft.

Spose I could use the digital out to bypass the tube stage but wouldnt consider it actually.

Anyway, good luck.

mcrespo71 · « **Reply #10 on:** 7 May 2004, 05:19 am »

Quote

I had a Rega Jupiter and was not impressed at all. Sounded slightly warmer than an old Sony that I had but not much better overall. OKAY sonically but ergonomically a real pain. Its audio quality is just not worth the $$ IMHO.

I agree with Frank that cheap transports are fine. I would get a decent transport that has the features you require and add the Nixon DAC. Well under $1K easy and will smoke the other players on your list.

Funny, my experience runs completely counter to yours. I loved the Rega Jupiter when I heard it and did not like the profoundly overrated (IMO) Scott Nixon Tube Dac + (can you say "pretty" with no verve).

Michael

Paul L · « **Reply #11 on:** 8 May 2004, 08:03 pm »

Put the Creek CD50Mk2 on the list.

jasonc · « **Reply #12 on:** 8 May 2004, 10:35 pm »

This player looks interesting-

http://cgi.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?dgtlplay&1089143557

No affiliation with seller

JLM · « **Reply #13 on:** 9 May 2004, 11:52 am »

Don't forget a Modwright Music Hall CD-25. It is/was Dan'd favorite CD player to mod as it was well built and started with a good design. Search underwoodwally and 6 moons

-Richard- · « **Reply #14 on:** 14 May 2004, 10:56 pm »

I am using an unmodified Pioneer DV 563A "universal"
player as a transport with a Scott Nixon Tubedac+

Everything is still burning in along with a modified
Carver ZR 1600 (moded by 8th nerve)...

A full review will follow...

However I would like to address Michael's comment
that the '...profoundly overrated (IMO) Scott Nixon Tube Dac +
(can you say "pretty" with no verve)...'

It would be helpful if our music loving community on
Audio Circle can share our observations in a way that
does not malign the small honest manufacturers of hand
made audio gear...this would require a much more
carefully thought out critical approach that would help
our all over community to understand why we have
come to our conclusions...what were our aims as
music lovers for our gear...what was the circumstances
that helped each of us to render our observations and so on...

I am not challenging Michaels opinions...but rather his off handed
approach to his observations which amounts to an attack on Scott
and his fine products...in my limited experience I have found Scott
Nixon's DAC to perform in a way that many AC members have observed...
the Pioneer without the DAC is very rough but has many excellent
qualities as has been mentioned in this thread...the Scott Nixon DAC
smooths out the rough edges of the Pioneer 563A so completely that
I would not listen to it without Scott's DAC in the chain...

Perhaps Michael has never had the pleasure of getting to know
Scott, as I have, on the phone at least...he is a perfect gentleman,
responsible to his clients and struggles to make a living based on
our good feedback...

'...Profoundly overrated...' would be more appropriate if leveled on a
very costly, highly touted, highly advertised, rich corporate manufacturer
who has the audio press in their pocket...

Scott Nixon is their along with several other very small manufacturers
to serve our very special audio community...Scott gets no press
and depends on us for business...

Let us try to see the largest possible picture here...it is very easy for us
to slander these people...if they go under because of it...we lose their
rather inexpensive products to play and experiment with...which I think
would be tragic...

My reason for purchasing Scott's DAC was a personal reco from Dr. Dan
who described his DAC as '...making your entire CD collection sound
the way analogue really should but does not..." this is the highest reco
from someone I respect and trust a great deal...

This is a very strange period for us music lovers...we seem to be between
emerging technologies that have not quite found their sea legs yet...
such as the digital amp revolution and competing audio formats...

This period might best be served by purchasing an inexpensive transport
like the Pioneer ($150+or-) and a relatively inexpensive DAC like Mr. Nixon's
($450) in order to give oneself time to see how things will finally work out
on the technological horizon...meanwhile you could play movies and other
audio formats on the Pioneer...not a bad situation...

Spending $1000 or $1500 on a dedicated CD player seems to me
not the most prudent way for me to spend my money right now...

As I said...a full review of the Scott Nixon's Tubedac+ and the Carver
ZR 1600 moded by 8th nerve is in the works.

I am making a plea for us be a little bit gentle with our powerful critical
influence on small innovators and inventors like Mr. Nixon who is really
a very fine gentleman...

Nice visit...cheers to all -Richard-

orthobiz · « **Reply #15 on:** 15 May 2004, 01:24 pm »

Michael's commments are fine by me.
Was very clear it was his opinion, his wording
was witty, got right to the point.
There's tons of good stuff out there to read
about the Scott-Nixon products.
An occasional naysayer?
No problem by me.
Want weird posts with bad language and
personal attacks? Go to audioasylum (just
try to post something positive about VanAlstine, f'rinst...)
This is the most literate, gentle, considerate
unmoderated site on the web!

bizzo

rickweed · « **Reply #16 on:** 15 May 2004, 03:30 pm »

First of all, thank you all for your suggestions. They were all greatly appreciated and helping one another is what this is all about. In the end though, through the multitude of great suggestions and referrals, I chose to play it safe, although somewhat expensive, and go with the Van Alstine T-Dac. Frank had loaned me one a ways back and I was very impressed. The only thing that held me back was the idea of then having to find a good transport although he says any cheap one will do. Well, I will have to address that issue at a later time. For right now, as soon as it's built, I will just enjoy the music. Then the fine tuning comes, cables, power cords, transport, etc., if I decide they are needed at all. Afterall, my ears are good, but they are 57 years old and really, there must be some limitations at this point to what I can hear.

Again, thanks to all and good listening.

Rick

rosconey · « **Reply #17 on:** 15 May 2004, 04:08 pm »

find a toshiba 3950-or 3960 for a transport-3960 has optical out and coax 3950 doesnt have optical

jasonc · « **Reply #18 on:** 15 May 2004, 04:50 pm »

Pioneer DV-656A is a good choice for a transport.

mcrespo71 · « **Reply #19 on:** 16 May 2004, 06:28 pm »

Quote

It would be helpful if our music loving community on
Audio Circle can share our observations in a way that
does not malign the small honest manufacturers of hand
made audio gear...this would require a much more
carefully thought out critical approach that would help
our all over community to understand why we have
come to our conclusions...what were our aims as
music lovers for our gear...what was the circumstances
that helped each of us to render our observations and so on...

I don't think my comments were out of line and I've written an exhaustive review of how I felt about the Scott Nixon Tube Dac + that may be found in the archives. Thus, I don't feel the need to keep writing the same thing over and over, which is why my comment was brief. Frank's comment on the Rega player was equally brief, though I don't see anyone arguing about that. I have no problem that he didn't like it, it's just contrary to my experience and I thought I should note that. IMO anyone that creates a product for public consumption has to take the good with the bad in net reviews. Nixon has plenty of good press, so what if a few people don't like it? If you like the product, that's all that should matter.

Michael