[JohnR]

I dunno. I used to buy and play records just because I liked them. 25 years ago, my system probably sounded like crap - but I liked it anyway.

What have we done.

[catastrofe]

Technology has become the bane of our existence.

[jimdgoulding]

Don't you still? 

[JohnR]

In its whole entirety, with the assumption of a sort of innocence in the whole process... I guess not.

[drab]

What have we done.

Grown older.

[Wayner]

I suggest getting in tune with the music, not the equipment or the banter that goes on about all the technical in and outs. The cost of tables is getting out of control (self induced inflation) and so is the cost of even used records, now around 7 US dollars here. At $25 to $30 US dollars for a new record, it's hard not to realize it ain't 1972.

Get some Hendrix, CSN & Y or some Tommy James and the Schondells, they will help transport you back into time.

Wayner 

[jimdgoulding]

We're very pre-occupied about how good playback can be- comes with the territory, I suppose- but it's still about the music and what it does for us.  Innit?

[Mitsuman]

I'm still living the old days, don't know about you.  I think the only difference is we've come to appreciate the difference between listening to music just for the sake of the music and how it affects our emotions, and wanting to hear certain music sound the best it possibly can. As long as you can still do both, what's the problem? 

[watercourse]

I see JohnR's point, so what I try to do is keep it real by digging in the Goodwill crates, listening to stuff I've never heard, and constantly broadening my musical horizons. That way, it's less about pristine audio quality and more about the music and discovery.Half the time that I buy new, "audiophile" pressings, it lacks that "something" that a thrift store find has.

[Elizabeth]

"Expectations" are a big part of the problem.
As the system gets better, expectations arise that it will 'be better' and then naturally the empty feeling when higher expectations are not met.

I think when we all were younger we did not have the high expectations, and thus were able to ENJOY whatever it was we had.

Higher expectations can include the feelings we used to have over some music, the sound quality when our standards have gone up,
The wanting to recapture our youth.

It is a tough problem if we have a lot of built in expectations.
So some folks can just enjoy what they have. And for others the glass is half empty way too much of the time.

Thank you for reading my pious pontificating!!LOL!! 

Added: I also have to say cumulative experience as we age tends to flatten out the current experience.
Over time one has various 'peak experiences' and those are what we judge all else by.  I can read or hear about some person enthralled by an experience and notice it takes a LOT LESS for a young person to be enthralled, than for someone my age.

[rockadanny]

I agree John. But once you taste filet mignon its tough to go back to porridge. 

[watercourse]

 Just a thought: If you play an instrument or sing, this makes the appreciation of solid musicianship that much easier. If you don't, you might try getting into that aspect of music to more firmly ground your ability to enjoy the musicians' contributions rather than the playback system's?

[Scott F.]

John,

I honestly think, the further we get into 'gear', the farther away we drag ourselves from the emotional attachment of the music. It doesn't take an audiophile long to stop listening [to the music] and start hearing things they think are wrong with the presentation (ie. soundstage width and depth, grainy highs, etc). This may well be accurate but in the process we've trained ourselves to pay attention to the little details rather than why we got into this in the first place...the ability to get lost in the music.

You may struggle forever trying to find that delicate balance of your system that conveys emotion and detail. That is the single hardest thing to do. Quite honestly, you may never find it in the realm of high end audio.

In my case, there is a way to achieve this...go vintage. Although I still have a reference system that is extremely accurate (and emotionally involving), I have several systems that are so low-fi, the typical audiophile would completely dismiss them. I have a one vintage system that is nothing more than an HH Scott 299, a Dual 1219 TT with an old Shure cart and a pair of Large Advent speakers. You want to talk about a system that will suck you into the music? This one does it. It isn't well defined, to doesn't reach the stratosphere on the highs or have earth shaking bass but holy crap does it convey emotion. The best part of that system is that if you have a dull sounding recording, reach over and give the treble a twist. Got a thin recording? Twist the bass knob. Instantaneously, you are transformed by the music.

Up in my wood shop, I have another newer vintage system. There I use a Rotel 970bx pre and Rotel 981 amp with a squeezebox as my source. All this drives a pair of killer sounding JBL 4410 3 way speakers. Again, this system has tone controls. It doesn't have the highest highs, lowest lows and doesn't dig into the minutia of the music but again, it is loads of fun to listen to with ANY music and it sucks you in.

The last is my mono system. This gets play time every single day. It consists of a 1954 Stromberg Carlson mono integrated amp driving an Altec 824 speaker. I have a squeezebox connected to it along with an old Dual 1210 (for 78s). I turn this system on every morning when I get ready for work. It is the least defined system I have but again, I don't listen for accuracy, I'm listening for the music.

So what are the common threads between those systems (besides being vintage)? First and foremost, I don't expect them to perform like my reference system. I listen to them for musical involvement (much like my car system). Second and probably more importantly, they have tone controls. In my eyes, a stereo is worthless if you can't play every piece of recorded music on it and not find some kind of enjoyment out of it.

What do 'audiophiles' first find out when they get into this hobby? First, there are no tone controls which means they can't play ALL of their music and enjoy it like they used to. Is there a solution? For the purist, no. They have already succumbed to only listening to well recorded music. For the music lover, you can abandon your quest for the ultimate in fidelity and simply go find something that has tone controls. That and I'd suggest finding a conventional pair of speakers that do most things right. You don't have to spend tons of money on them either. There, I would think 'vintage' rather than audiophile. If you think 'audiophile', you are going to get sucked right back into that upgrade and ultra-fi path.

If I were to give it all up, I'd probably settle on my (other rebuilt) HH Scott 299 amp (el84) driving my JBL 4410s. I'd keep my AR ES1 turntable and one of my tubed DACs. I'd gladly give up all the uber cables, interconnects and power cords for something reasonable. At that point, I could get lost in the music and would never look back at my ultra-fi days with any envy.

Then again, my iFi Chair is the bomb. I could easily live with that, a tubed DAC and the AR table (with a tubed phono pre).

....but that's just me, I can be a little unconventional


picks of my vintage gear here and here

[Goosepond]

They say the best thing about nostalgia is you just remember the good things! 
Gene

[Minn Mark]

I guess one thing I miss, personally anyway, is that over the years I have become more isolated as an 'audiophile'.  I used to have a group of friends and we'd get together, play music (audio, and we played instruments) and share LPs, tapes, etc.  Now it seems I dont know anyone near or far who has any semblence of the interest in music and equipment that I do (of course aside from you friends I enjoy here at AC).  Too bad. Maybe its just my situation, but if I could encouage more direct interaction, get togethers, sharing lps, etc., in my and your situations, I would. I think many larger cities still have audio societies, etc. I do also miss have good local retail for equipment and music.  I have not ever been to RMAF etc, but should do that to see the gear et al.

M

[thunderbrick]

+1 for Scott F!

I think part of the problem is a conflict between tinkering and music.  Many of us grew up listening to music while we were doing other things: driving, partying, blah, blah, etc.

Now we do two things, listening to music as an end unto itself, and tinkering with the stuff that brings us to that end.  Since most of us are guys, we never outgrew our toys, be they model trains, cars, whatever.  Why?  Because we can, and it's something we can share with others who are also obsessed.   A tribal thing, perhaps.  Maybe a need for self-validation when "the guys" come over and rave about our toys/sound?  Could be.
Our spouses/kids/co-workers aren't going to rave about what tube rolling does, so are we seeking mutual support so
music becomes secondary?

Which leads to another issue.........who among us is going to tell a buddy that his system makes our ears bleed?  I know a guy who is so proud of his 100% (insert brand here) system, that I didn't have the heart to tell him it sounds like turgid mud to me.

Dunno, but in the Webster Records fire sale I bought a lot of new (to me) music, so last night I listened to opera arias.  The night before?  Count Basie (thanks, BISL!).

And am I making or scrounging tweaks?  You betcha!  The toys, like 60's muscle cars, are fun to play with.  The good thing is we don't have to wait until sunny summer days to "drive" our audio toys.

[Wayner]

This thread is starting to go into three different directions, and probably rightly so. Tis it the music, the set-up/accuracy hassle or the level of equipment that cause one to "bum-out" on the whole experience.

Certainly my pet peeve is the equipment cost factor. Many here believe that a $2000 table sounds way better then a $1000 table, or an MC cartridge will destroy an MM cartridge. It just goes on and on.

My personal belief is that it's all the money rabbit hole. More expensive set-ups perhaps should sound way better then their lesser counterparts, but in fact, they don't.

How does one ever become comfortable in this hobby, knowing that he or she may have in fact spent over 10 grand on a vinyl rig, and it doesn't bring tears to the eyes, at least not from the music. Perhaps it's the frustration that lots of money didn't really bring that much more realism to the vinyl.

I remember John TheChairGuy making a statement about the point of no return where money after money gets spent on vinyl improvement, but reality says otherwise. Spend a grand and get .0X better? Bad math, bad taste in the mouth, bad music, cause for that money it should put you in heavenly bliss.

Wayner

[catastrofe]

I believe it's mostly about the pace of our lives, fueled primarily by technology (see my post above).  Everything has become faster-paced as a result of technology, and we don't have time (or at least we don't make time) to "stop and smell the roses".

I remember when my company got its first fax machine (thermal paper that would turn black in the car), when I got my first cell-phone (suitcase style with a corded handset), and when I got my first personal computer (286).  All of these things contributed to an increase in efficiency, but to what end?  We go from place-to-place, task-to-task, and relationship-to-relationship at breakneck speed with a decidedly reduced opportunity for enjoyment.

[macrojack]

Our media are there to scare us and to make us feel pressure. I agree with catastrofe that we are all too apprehensive, too apoplectic, too enslaved by fears of loss or shortcomings. We aren't as carefree as we were back in the day. In my case I can say a lot changed when I had children. That experience sort of brought me to earth and caused me to look at the world around me differently. I now had somebody else to worry about besides my own half-assed self. That was the point where I began to morph away from my longstanding habit of playing one record after the other interspersed with whatever else I was doing or just sitting entranced.

Now there's news to read, shit to fix or maintain, bills to pay, rentals to supervise, a marriage to support and somebody or something to rescue. The reality is that my priorities shifted subtly  and perhaps permanently during those years. Where once I was a voracious reader, I can no longer get any traction in reading a book. I'm online instead, or watching the tube, or listening to talk radio. Anything but smelling the roses.

[Scott F.]

I believe it's mostly about the pace of our lives, fueled primarily by technology (see my post above).  Everything has become faster-paced as a result of technology, and we don't have time (or at least we don't make time) to "stop and smell the roses".

I remember when my company got its first fax machine (thermal paper that would turn black in the car), when I got my first cell-phone (suitcase style with a corded handset), and when I got my first personal computer (286).  All of these things contributed to an increase in efficiency, but to what end?  We go from place-to-place, task-to-task, and relationship-to-relationship at breakneck speed with a decidedly reduced opportunity for enjoyment.

Bob,

You know..you're right. Back in the day (wait a minute, let me find my walker...OK), music was at the forefront of our lives. It didn't matter if we were at the park playing Frisbee listening to our car stereos or if we were at the apartment. At the apartment we had the TV on with the sound turned down and we were spinning vinyl, a reel or listening to FM. The only time the TV sound came up was when SNL, Monty Python or Doctor Who came on. We spent our time talking, playing backgammon or cards or simply listening to music.

Back then, we spent time with each other. In today's age, it almost seems too self indulgent to spend time listening by yourself when there are so many other things that either need to be done or take away from your (already) limited time with other family members.

...hmm, another piece to the endless puzzle 


(edit) macro is spot on too...WAY too many distractions today