Acoustic Room Treatment

MaxCast · « **Reply #80 on:** 24 Feb 2003, 02:10 am »

Quote from: JohnR

MaxCast, Xi-trum, how's it going, any results?

I'm coming to the conclusion that Dan Banquer is absolutely right about the need for acoustic treatment. I think I'm starting to tell the difference between the sound of a system in an acoustically treated room and one that is not. It's not just obvious things like slap-echo. Removing the reflections really does reveal details and improves the presentation. I don't care about imaging per se, to my mind it's sort of a party trick that is somewhat secondary to the real goal of creating an audio illusion. (Some etymologist around here will probably have a field day with that one ) But that improves too.

I'd go as far as so say that if you have say $5k in gear and no acoustic treatment, then you may as well stop spending money.

JohnR

Well, the room is quieter of course. You are more aware of yourself in the room...if that makes any sence. I play the music up a notch on the volume. I have a piece of 4'x4' behind each speaker a couple 2'x2' on the sides behind the speakers. Two 2'x2' pieces I hang about five feet behind my seat, off to the sides. One 2'x4' directly behind me about 8' to deal with a brick fire place. And a 2'x4' piece I place on my TV rack. (I have a 5.5' wide x 4' tall rack that has a few TV's and equipment in it)

The biggest improvement in sound I have heard is pinpoint location of instruments, a nice transition in sound stage inbetween instruments and when they move. The sound stage has decreased just a bit (less echo going on??) but has also become more accurate. The stereo image is just as powerful but with the better transitions. I notice a nice even movement on transients instead of the start of a move then BAM its there. Got me???

This is hard to describe.

With my speakers 4' from any wall I think the most important piece is the one in front of the TV's. My chair back is as high as my head so I don't think the rear pieces are doing much. I will be moving those toward the front and listening to what happens. One of these days I'll have some pictures.

All in all, I'm glad I bought these. Thanks a bunch Danny. I think I'd buy more if the color was right. While hanging these things my wife said for the first time I was nuts.

I said, "just be glad I'm down stairs instead of up stairs." Then she went

Dan Banquer · « **Reply #81 on:** 24 Feb 2003, 01:53 pm »

Thanks John R. I wish I could take credit for this but I really can't. I also think your estimate of 5k on system is a little too conservative, but that's just my take on things.
Loudspeaker and room are the first and most fundamental issues, and just about everything else is secondary. Given the price vs. performance it is the best "tweak" out there. Over the past ten years I have observed audiophiles/music lovers spend hundreds of dollars and go through god knows how many "high end tweaks" all to little or no avail. All they really needed was the acoustic foam across the back wall, and up the side walls a few feet.
If you take the time, and not much money, to do this, you will be able to get more information out of your loudspeakers and get more detailed information from your source. It will also help to really discern if any of your own "tweaks" or equipment are doing the job they are supposed to.
Thanks John R. and Maxcast for coming back and talking about this. I expect similar results from others in this forum.

Marbles · « **Reply #82 on:** 24 Feb 2003, 03:04 pm »

Quote from: Dan Banquer

Thanks John R. and Maxcast for coming back and talking about this. I expect similar results from others in this forum.

What the hell Dan, I posted this Feb 4th in this thread! No mention of me!!??

Quote from: Marbles

Dan,

My room is not setup for that, as I have a built in bar near the back of my room (what a surprise!) with my listening sofa right in front of it.

I have a brick fireplace wall floor to ceiling 10' wide that starts immeadiately at the speaker on that side, and an open room on the other side.

I have a TV and 2 equipment racks between the speakers approx. 6" behind the speakers.

Imaging with the "open side" speaker was always great. Before the acoustic treatment the fireplace side speaker didn't get much outside that speaker. With 4" of foam from hearth to mantle (48" high) and 48" in front of the speaker the imaging is now almost perfectly balanced.

I then put a 2' x 2' x 4" panal on the TV side of each speaker to stop any reflections from hitting the TV.

This helped to unsmear some of the higher frequencies (didn't even know they were smearing) but did not seem to help much with the depth of the soundstage. I've only recently tried this so it could be software related as well.

Dan Banquer · « **Reply #83 on:** 24 Feb 2003, 03:19 pm »

OOOOOPS!!!!!!

With all the talk of whorehouse red couches with leopard skin cushions and pimp orange drapes I guess I must have missed that. I guess I am due for a bitch slap from pimp daddy. Whip me , beat me, make me write bad checks!!

Xi-Trum · « **Reply #84 on:** 24 Feb 2003, 04:55 pm »

Well, I have ordered the foams. I'm hoping they come this week so I can work on the room this weekend.

Xi-Trum · « **Reply #85 on:** 25 Feb 2003, 07:18 pm »

Ok, I got some foams in. I glued them to 2x4 peg boards. In an initial test, I put up one board on a side wall (~1 foot from ceiling). Here's the result:

Before the treatment, a clap test (while standing between the speakers) results in reverbs that last seconds. Wow!!! So, all this time, sound waves have been bouncing around between the front side walls. After the treatment: no reverbs AT ALL. Clap, and that's it!

Now, moving closer to the front wall (still standing between the speakers), a clap test still reveals very audible high-frequency "ringing". The ringing has a very metallic sound to it. And I never knew these ringings existed.

I'll wait for the rest of the foams to come in so that I can treat the front wall. Hopefully, the high-frequency ringing will go away. The early result is very encouraging.

Note: since the foams are mounted on peg boards, it's pretty easy to put them up on the wall or take them down. That makes it simple to A/B the before and after effect. Cool!

MaxCast · « **Reply #86 on:** 25 Feb 2003, 07:23 pm »

I agree with the peg board. A few nails here and there and you can move the stuff around with ease. For anyone gluing foam to something...make sure you get a glue suitable for foam. Liquid nails makes some for foam molding (purple stripe).

hairofthedawg · « **Reply #87 on:** 26 Feb 2003, 08:12 pm »

While I didn't try Dan's suggestions(I'm lazy) I did get some things from eighthnerve and enjoyed the results. There's a pseudo review in their forum.

cheers,

Dick

Dan Banquer · « **Reply #88 on:** 26 Feb 2003, 08:49 pm »

Dick you lazy dog!!! Audio Nirvana awaits you!!

Can you put up a picture of your room with the new acoustic treatment. I promise not to comment on the lack of a whorehouse red couch.

hairofthedawg · « **Reply #89 on:** 26 Feb 2003, 09:25 pm »

I'm into leather!

Wasn't worried about the couch, but more the tacky tape I had to use because my walls are too hard for tacks or pins.

Here's the front

Corners and windows, one hidden behind the gauzy curtain and one in the center.

Here's the rear

One you can't see because it's off in the opening to the left and a ways back. The seams are placed in the center of the rear wall and in the indentation.

cheers,

LazyDawg

Dan Banquer · « **Reply #90 on:** 26 Feb 2003, 09:43 pm »

So your not only lazy but kinky too

Good start Dick; any time you get a little more ambitious and your dominatrix loosens the leather straps feel free to start on the backwall, and drapes for the windows.

hairofthedawg · « **Reply #91 on:** 26 Feb 2003, 09:48 pm »

The assumptions some people make

I'm talking furniture and you're....well, you know where you are

What about the back wall? I thought most of what you wanted done took place in the front.

cheers,

Dick

Dan Banquer · « **Reply #92 on:** 26 Feb 2003, 09:53 pm »

The wall behind your speakers to be more precise. This is where the worst of the reflections usually happen.

JoshK · « **Reply #93 on:** 26 Feb 2003, 10:42 pm »

Dan,

Excuse my ignorance but is this only the case if your speakers are rear ported? I often wondered how waves from mids, for instance, curve around the sides of the front baffle and turn >70º in direction to head to the wall behind them. Is this what is happening?

Dan Banquer · « **Reply #94 on:** 26 Feb 2003, 10:52 pm »

Josh: I am not that well versed in acoustics. I just have learned this from pro audio and people like Brian Cheney of VMPS. I suspect that some of the of what you describe is true and additional reflections as well. I think the best bet is to ask someone well versed in acoustics such as Mike McCall of Shamrock Audio, or Brian Cheney of VMPS. I'm sure They can explain this better than I can.
Dick: Leather furniture?? Do you realize what's going to happen when MARBLES finds out about this?

hairofthedawg · « **Reply #95 on:** 26 Feb 2003, 11:06 pm »

Dan: Yes and I'm looking forward to the ladies he brings when he visits!

cheers,

Dick

Xi-Trum · « **Reply #96 on:** 27 Feb 2003, 01:20 am »

Quote from: JoshK

I often wondered how waves from mids, for instance, curve around the sides of the front baffle and turn >70º in direction to head to the wall behind them. Is this what is happening?

Yes! Imagine throwing a rock into a pond, the waves on the surface would spread equally in all directions. The same thing applies to sound, but in 3D. Well, that's a very simplistic view of it.

Dan Banquer · « **Reply #97 on:** 27 Feb 2003, 01:52 am »

Dick: Your a dirty old dawg

and I like you more for it.

Tweak1 · « **Reply #98 on:** 2 Mar 2003, 08:46 pm »

I use 4 Argent RoomLenses to great effect. I have one client with 9, and counting! If WAF is a factor, they are easily moved in/out of the system.

nathanm · « **Reply #99 on:** 3 Mar 2003, 05:05 am »

I finally finished my new room's acoustic treatment (for now at least!). It makes such a positive difference, and you don't even have to turn the stereo on to know that. It's like a library in here, but even cozier. I would never wanna go back to a live, reverby, pingy room. I think the foam improves the room's chi!

I'd like to add more though. What I'd like to do is hang red velvet curtains all around the room. Of course, that would be in lieu of the foam, which I also like the looks of. But I hate the wall color, so I wanna cover it up just for that reason in addition to the sound damping properties. Maybe I will do the curtains in the living room for HT.

Deep Purple

My friend brought his small Polk speakers over and said he didn't dislike them so much hearing them in this room! Heh! Like someone earlier said, you are more aware of yourself in the room! It's very intimate and inviting sounding. Although there's a weird bass warble thing when someone talks in the listening chair. Parallel walls I suppose.

Overall I give room treatment a big

!