[JLM]

According to your website: "Anthony Gallo Acoustics manufactures superb-sounding, innovative, compact loudspeakers that fit into just about any room. The A’Diva Ti is in my opinion the finest ultra-compact loudspeaker out there."

As much less expensive than AudioKinesis Alpha/Beta speakers, I was wondering how viable a pair of Gallo A’Diva Ti with swarm subs would work in either a medium or large room.  Or would multiple smaller Gallo subs make more sense.

I really like the idea of a single driver covering the bulk of the frequency range, but wonder about the backwave from a spherical enclosure.

TIA

[tesseract]

I'm definitely NOT Duke  and will leave the bulk of your post for him to respond to.

But I couldn't leave this one alone.

but wonder about the backwave from a spherical enclosure.

The spherical enclosure's purpose is to deal with the back wave. The lack of perpendicular walls is a great asset, minimizing the back wave bouncing back and forth, reinforcing itself in corners and also minimizing reflecting energy back through the cone.

[JLM]

As a structural engineer I understand the strength of the sphere, but I've also been in  geodesic domes.  When standing in the middle the reverberation as certain frequencies was amazing.  Even with the special stuffing (what Gallo calls "S2" technology) it seems that the echo times of A'Diva Ti should be clearly audible.  OTOH Gallo has been doing the "roundsound" thing for years. 

BTW my 2 channel speaker budget limit is $3k, USD.

[Duke]

...I was wondering how viable a pair of Gallo A’Diva Ti with swarm subs would work in either a medium or large room.  Or would multiple smaller Gallo subs make more sense.

The limiting factor would be the excursion capability of the A'Diva Ti.  That small cone is probably going to go non-linear (distort) before you get to adequate SPL in a large room. 

Also, you'd be paying a premium for the Swarm's SPL capability that would never begin to be tapped with a pair of A'Diva Ti's for mains.    The Swarm would do ballpark 10-15 dB more than the pair of A'Diva Ti's, depending on the specifics of the driver used for the A'Diva (which I'm not privy to). 

[Duke]

With a $3k budget, it's hard to get both fullrange (subwoofer-territory) deep bass and adequate uncompressed SPL in a large room while maintaining good sound quality.   If you had to trade off something, what would it be? 

[JLM]

So Duke, let's talk about what is "adequate SPL".  Most references use 105 to 110 dB for peaks of various musical genres.  I'm 95% music, 5% HT.  And I'm nearing retirement age, so am mellowing on my preferences (classical guitar gets more attention than Led Zeppelin).  My serious listening is nearfield.

Working backwards from 110 dB, assuming room gain plus 2 channels equal roughly what is lost by listening at 1.8 meters versus 1 meter, and using the A'Diva Ti stated efficiency of 88 dB/w/m and 120 watts (21 dBW) maximum power, I deduce that they'd reach 109 dB.  That's close enough for me.

Does this make any sense?

[Duke]

Hi JLM,

Okay, this is where reality rears its ugly head.  120 watts is the thermal power handling limit of the A'Diva Ti, but various limiting factors set in before we get there. 

Typically a speaker is exhibiting ballpark 3 dB of thermal compression at its maximum rated input power, so that would bring us down to 106 dB. 

But most likely an even greater reduction in SPL capability arises when the cone reaches its linear excursion limits.   I don't know how much linear excursion the driver in the A'Diva Ti has, but making a somewhat educated ballpark guess, I would expect it to start to go non-linear before we reach 100 dB in the region below 150 Hz.    A high-pass filter would definitely help.

[Tyson]

Compression is one of the reasons to go for a system based around a quality pro driver versus an "audiophile" driver.  If you are going to listen loud (and 110db peaks is LOUD), then that's what the pro world does far, far better.

[Carl V]

how loud do you guys listen to most music?

Yes, I at times I venture into the  peak 95-105 dB range.
So Program material is 75-95~ish. 80-105 for BIG music.
But for the most part it's going from 60-80dB...some
recordings seem to have nice big Dynamic range swings
i.e.,55-85dB.

I've lusted after those Jazz Modules...heard 'em at LoneStar & RMAF.
Lusted after some Summas as well.  Bidding my time with SP tech.
and 2 15" sealed Tumults.

[JLM]

I'm with you guys.  I rarely go north of 90 dB (own a Radio Shack spl meter as I tried to like SET's and speaker efficiency/spls were always an issue), usually stay between 70 and 80 dB.  Even with a well insulated listening room, the family complains about anything close to 90 dB.

So compression isn't much of a concern Duke (I understand and agree with the concepts).  Sorry for being such a wimp.   

So Duke, would a swarm be totally over the top for the A'Diva Ti?  (Cause the prices aren't IMO.)

[Duke]

So Duke, would a swarm be totally over the top for the A'Diva Ti?  (Cause the prices aren't IMO.)

Maybe I can do a "Swarm Lite" that wouldn't have you spending money for much higher SPL capability than you need.   We'd use a 230 watt amp instead of a kilowatt amp, but you'd still have good extension to 23 Hz ballpark in-room.   If this might be of interest, let's go to e-mail if you don't mind; audiokinesis at yahoo dot com.

[trebejo]

I've been wondering about this SPL stuff too. When I got a pair of 12" Tannoys I learned the beauty of a loudspeaker that is far away from its maximum SPL when it is already getting kinda loud.

Then I got the radio shack spl meter and my jaw dropped. 90 db is already getting kinda loud. It takes a bit of work to get the needle to jiggle when the knob is at the 100 db setting.

A quick word about the room--4000 cubic feet, listening about 8-10 feet from the speakers, 3-4 feet away from any walls.

At the moment the Tannoys have been replaced by some JBLs with 12" woofers which are also, in principle, capable of high SPL (LSR32). I do not put them nearly as loud as they can go... but I can't help the feeling that they do not do loudness as well as the Tannoys; they have a harshness at loud levels that the Tannoys mask so well that, when I play the latter "loud", I have to shout at them to figure out if they're too loud.

This is the paradoxical part of it--that several decibels below the "max SPL' setting for either speaker (i.e. the spl needle staying under 100 db), somehow, the "louder" speaker does "loud" better than "normal" speaker.

[JLM]

Sorry, I've been away.

Duke:  I thought this might be of general interest.  I'll e-mail you.

trebejo:  Most mechanical/electrical equipment "prefers" being run well within it's limits.  As professional as JBL's are, the Tannoys are really top drawer stuff.

[Duke]

Duke:  I thought this might be of general interest.  I'll e-mail you.

Since what I'm talking about is essentially a one-off project, I'd rather discuss the details in email.  Thanks!

[pixelgrease]

I have Micro Ti's which use the same drivers as the A'Diva but a smaller enclosure. My Micro Ti's are wall-mounted which gets their bass extension down to 100Hz. I use them for side and rear channels. I have a single subwoofer positioned near the listening position. My fronts are Prismas.

Queen's multi-channel recording of "A Night At The Opera" sends piano, guitars and vocals to the side channels. When the instruments move to the side channels (Gallos), they sound good. I don't listen loud and the last time I demoed for someone the volume was set to the listener's tastes (louder than mine) and the level was correct when guitars transitioned from front to rear on Behemian Rapsody; they sounded good.

However, the Micro Ti's have nothing on the reverberant field of the Prismas. When compared side-by-side with the Prismas, they lack the open, spacious feeling of the... majestic monoliths that are the Prismas.

Gallo's round speakers look great wall-mounted -- 8 or 9 on WAF scale. They are beautiful on stalk mounts, but lose some WAF. I love them as my side and surround channels. For fronts, if I had Gallos I would absolutely go for A'Diva Ti's over the Micro Ti's for the bass extension.

A Swarm / A'Diva Ti system would sound great, but would lack the live sounding reverberant field of Duke's satellite systems.

_{Disclaimer: I am Duke's 0.5 brother. I liked his speakers for 20 years up until the Jazz Modules -- then I loved them.}

[JLM]

Thanks for the un-biased input.   

I'll trade you (2) 0.5 stepsons for a decent son.   

[harley52]

I thought only the Gallo Classico's had the S2 mylar bits.

[Duke]

I thought only the Gallo Classico's had the S2 mylar bits.

My understanding is that the same internal damping technology is used in all Gallo speakers.

[harley52]

Ok, I stand corrected, Duke.

Guys, I gave the Gallo CL 2's, the standmount and a very small one at that a try out. Wow, was very impressed with a nice smooth sound and a fairly large sweetspot. They, I'd think would work out better than the Diva's and I cranked on them and they sounded fine even at very high spl's. I didn't keep them as I was listening to them to see if I would like the sound before getting thr CL3 or 4's.  The lack of a x-over and that tweeter radiation of 180 degrees makes for some nice sound. About 90% of speakers I listened to over the last 25 yrs. all seem to have a crappy x-over that I can hear or a lot of distortion in the 3k hz-4500hz. Even at normal levels, say 85-90db's.

If you haven't already purchased the Diva's give the CL2's atry. They really are pretty small for WAF, something I don't have to contend with as my significant other knows how much I love music. Yes, I'm lucky that's why I hang on to her. Well she let's me think that anyway. In truth I'd be broke and lost w/o her. That's just between us, ok!