[JohnR]

My take on it is that I want to be able to hear whatever is "there." Not just a hint that I have to listen for, and not an artificial bloat/boom either. Just, when it's there, it's there. When it's not there... it's gone. And when it IS there, I want it to hit when it should hit (and that is nothing to do with low-end extension).

You?

[Bob in St. Louis]

  

[Ericus Rex]

I'd rather not hear it than to hear it done badly...and I'm a bass player!

[JLM]

John,

Isn't that the basic premise of all audiophiles?

[chrisby]

I'd rather not hear it than to hear it done badly...and I'm a bass player!

well perhaps that's why you don't necessarily need to "hear" it - you intuitively know what should be there?  - then of course it becomes a question of - "jeeze, he sure messed that up" 

and for a lot of "audiophiles" or more appropriately, music lovers with either budget or room constraints, the sins of omission of more modest systems can certainly have advantages over those that try to deliver more than the venue can accommodate   

[Mitsuman]

Are we talking amplified music, or acoustic music?

[Letitroll98]

My take on it is that I want to be able to hear whatever is "there." Not just a hint that I have to listen for, and not an artificial bloat/boom either. Just, when it's there, it's there. When it's not there... it's gone. And when it IS there, I want it to hit when it should hit (and that is nothing to do with low-end extension).

You?

I think I know what you're saying here.  Systems with overdone bass seem to always have some bass playing, without the natural ebb and flow, like there's a low level 20hz signal always on.  Nice bookshelf systems eliminate this, part of their appeal, but you're always trying to recreate the very low bass in your head from higher fundamentals.  When my system is adjusted correctly, I forget that there is a sub in the system, it can't be heard as a separate unit, it's all one of a whole.  Is this what you were getting at?   

[*Scotty*]

John, I agree with you. Bass heard live never has bloat or overhang. It is not distorted either.
These observations apply to acoustic and amplified music. Amplified music with bass content is what it is. The player may have dialed in distortion of some kind in his instrument to suit his desire for a certain sound but when this musician is recorded his characteristic sound should be reproduced in your home unaltered by added distortion from the loudspeaker.
 I would like to see a solid 20Hz flat and distortion levels at the listening position of less than 3% THD at least 105dB, preferably 110dB.
 It would be nice if a graph showing the relationship between THD and the displacement limited peak SPL vs frequency was available. This would tell you up front how loud a subwoofer could play at a given frequency and stay under 3% THD.  This would eliminate from consideration a lot of under-performing pretenders.
Scotty

[Mitsuman]

The reason I asked is that depending on the size of the venue, how loud the bass amp is turned up, the venue acoustics, etc., bass doesn't always sound the same. With recorded music, how are we to know what the engineer intended the bass to sound like from a volume standpoint compared with the level of the other instruments?

I know at live band practices, I can hear the high-hat vibrate during and after the note is struck. In a large concert hall, in most seats, you'll never hear that high-hat buzzing from the bass notes. Transfer all of these variable to a recorded piece of music being re-produced in a home listening room, and how can you definitively say what the bass should sound like in all cases? 

[JerryM]

I want to hear real percussion.

I once saw an orchestra at the Hollywood Bowl wherein the bass drummer did this incredible build up - it started softly, almost imperceptible, and led to this goose-bump inducing peak of awe inspiring intensity. To this day, I would love to recreate that in my home.

It's unlikely, but one can hope. 

Have fun,

Jerry

[Rclark]

I love a system capable of aggressive punchy bass yet also delicate, articulate bass. This is my goal.

[JohnR]

Transfer all of these variable to a recorded piece of music being re-produced in a home listening room, and how can you definitively say what the bass should sound like in all cases? 

Ah, well, think of this way: can you tell when the reproduced bass does not sound anything like it should?

[JohnR]

John,

Isn't that the basic premise of all audiophiles?

Hm... some seem to like it "big" - too big.

[*Scotty*]

The bass, while it presents its own set problems in regards to High Fidelity reproduction in the home, should not be held to standards that are different from the rest musical spectrum.
From Mitsuman,

With recorded music, how are we to know what the engineer intended the  bass to sound like from a volume standpoint compared with the level of  the other instruments?

These relationships are established by the engineer when the recording is mastered.
 Theoretically, the goal is to accurately reproduce what is in the recording with a minimum of editorializing. This means flat response and no overhang or bloat.
If we hew to this standard the bass information reproduced as acoustic sound waves in our room should be a reasonable facsimile of the information in the recording.
 Ironically we can't say how any recording should sound, all we can do is seek to reproduce the information contained in the recording with the least amount added distortion possible.
Scotty
 

[BrianAbington]

Personally the biggest thing for me is that the Bass guitar, Rhythm guitar, and kick drum/floor toms can all be distinguished from each other. Way to many systems, subwoofered or not tend to blend these instruments together and that for me is an often over looked key to great bass.

As I get older (just turned 30) I don't care about pipe organ music being able to vibrate my nuts. (well not on a daily basis) However that low extension the ability to reach those low notes and have them be there at the same volume as the 60-120 hz notes and not rolled off by 30+ DB is something I look for now.

I know I'm going to talk about this experience a lot but this is my new point of reference,  but my recent time spent with a pair of Sonus Faber Liutos with a Rel 528 really showed me that yes it is possible to have a 2.1 setup that can sound beautiful with all types of music and still flap your pants if you want.

[WGH]

Ah, well, think of this way: can you tell when the reproduced bass does not sound anything like it should?

Probably when it is not there. I have listened to the Trinity Sessions by the Cowboy Junkies a lot. A few weeks ago I replaced my Von Schweikert VR2's with a pair of Salk HT2-TL's and for the first time I hear (and feel) a low level kick drum on Misguided Angel.

Wayne

[Tyson]

I want the bass from my speakers to be as good as the bass on my BeyerDynamic T1's.  Oh wait, it is

[mav52]

I want to hear the clean bass lines, non distorted rather than ghetto blasters types pumping out loads of bass with no clear break in distortion or notes and no accuracy.

[mcgsxr]

Guess I am the resident whack job here.

I want to feel it.  Nothing says bass like the hair on your arms or neck moving.

Cars are much better for it than rooms, based on cabin gain.

For HT what I want is impact - that feeling that the helicopter in the Matrix did not hit A building, it hit YOUR building.

For most music I just want to hear it reproduced down there, but likely 10-20% more than most others.

In a car, I want to absolutely feel the bass.

There, I said it!  I know that few others share this love of bass, and I am just fine with that!

[Bob in St. Louis]

Amen Brother.