[Danberg]

i have had good results using simple quality medical/lab-grade isolation transformers, that can be bought on ebay for pennies on the dollar...

doug s.

Pardon my ignorance, your "isolation transformer" idea sounds like it is worth a try for me.  However, how does one look up simple quality medical /lab-grade isolation transformer on e-bay.  Could you give me a specific company name, or link to give me an exact idea of what you are describing.  Obviously I am new to this kind of stuff and in addition, have a limited budget for such.

[jtwrace]

try this one: http://www.amazon.com/Tripp-Lite-Isolation-Transformer-outlet/dp/B00006HPFH

[doug s.]

...And what are analog "gears" and digital "gears"?  My system doesn't have any gears in it....

it is how a non-english-as-first-language individual would pluralize "gear".  i suspect you already knew that, tho...   

doug s.

[Tyson]

I find that isolating all the digital equipment on a separate line from all the analog equipment gives the biggest bang for the buck, from a sonic perspective.

[doug s.]

Pardon my ignorance, your "isolation transformer" idea sounds like it is worth a try for me.  However, how does one look up simple quality medical /lab-grade isolation transformer on e-bay.  Could you give me a specific company name, or link to give me an exact idea of what you are describing.  Obviously I am new to this kind of stuff and in addition, have a limited budget for such.

danberg, what jtwrace posted is an example.  that one, at 250w, should be adequately sized for most any source component, likely would be fine for a preamp.  but, on ebay, you can find similar for quite a bit less money.  if you are wanting something large enough to plug an amplifier into, you may have to go considerably larger.  these can get more expensive, but again, if you are patient, you will find them quite reasonably.  the last big isolation transformer i bought was ~2kva, weighed ~75 lbs, and i bought it for ~$50.  shipping cost a bit more!     at this size, they are typically listed for ~$200-$300.  one thing to note, regarding these large isolation transformers - they can hum; some folks find this annoying; it was never a big issue for me...

here's a nice smaller unit, that will take 4 gears.    note, though, that this unit will require a special male computer plug, not the normal plug for a power outlet:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/180829309969


two outlet unit, normal outlets:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/270858053848


same as the amazon tripplite:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/320851114083

this one could feed small-med amps:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/310379832378

nice, but too expensive, imo:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/370573270362
http://www.ebay.com/itm/130642125285

this is sweet, as you can use it as a wariac as well:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/250987210100

5kva - go nuts!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/320796139414

go really nuts - do the whole house!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/330692997864


doug s.

[doug s.]

I find that isolating all the digital equipment on a separate line from all the analog equipment gives the biggest bang for the buck, from a sonic perspective.

agreed, but as i said before - separate isolation transformer for dac and separate one for transport.  having separate isolation transformers for each piece of digital equipment, imo, is more important than whether or not the digital gears are different power lines going back to the main panel.

doug s.

[Tyson]

Oh no, I mean separate power lines for each.  That's the biggie.  After that, then comes the isolation transformers.

[doug s.]

Oh no, I mean separate power lines for each.  That's the biggie.  After that, then comes the isolation transformers.

i know - but if i had to choose one or the other, i would go w/separate isolation transformer for each separate digital piece first.  it makes it much less important for separate lines, then.  even w/separate lines, the lines typically go to the same panel, and you can get noise from the digital equipment into the other gears.  of course, both is best!   

doug s.

[Tyson]

Both!!!!!!

[OzarkTom]

Over the years, I have tried numerous homemade and commercial power coditioners, even some of the very expensive ones. While the sound always sounded smoother, I noticed a loss of detail and soundstage while using one, somewhat of a veiling effect.

I have never tried an isolation transformer, I guess that should be next on my list.

[rw@cn]

Hi.
Glad to hear better sound with purified power.

Don't be silly, RFI is all over the place wherever you move yr digital gears.

There is one economic & yet effective way to minimize RFI discharge into the powerlines by digital equipment, that includes mcrowaves oven, range, frige, washer etc etc which are ALL built in with digital controls.

Distance and shielding can also reduce RFI. FCC Type B certification goes a long way towards mitigating RFI. Microwave ovens can also be unplugged. As for the fridge and range, well ...

The idea of ferrite chokes has been around a long time and sometimes helps solve the problem.

The idea of huge power transformers was implemented by one of Tice's first units. I had it and while it helped souce devices, it didn't work as well on high power amp. Also these transformers can tend to hum.

Some of the modern (and expensive) devices are quite good even for high power amplifiers. YMMV

If you have a highly resolving, most of these inexpensive suggestions will (IMHO) cause more problems than they will cure.

[cheap-Jack]

Hi.

Both!!!!!!

Yes, Both plus clamp-on RFI ferrite suppressors on power cords of ALL digital related appliances & equipment, particularly our computers.

As I already posted above, with dedicated powerlines installed, we don't need any more to acquire costly brandname conditioiners as the short-cut powerlines exclusive for our audio rig are already much less RFI contaminated. A much less costly inline powerline filters will do an as effective job as those costly conditioner. 

Why we want to spend our hard earn cash to finance those expensive conditioners vendors ?????????????

Over the years, I have tried numerous homemade and commercial power conditioners, even some of the very expensive ones. While the sound always sounded smoother, I noticed a loss of detail and soundstage while using one, somewhat of a veiling effect.

Bingo! Like isolation transformers, not ALL conditioners are angels sonically.
Many complex conditioners employ tons active electronics to do the filtering can only screw up the sound. With dedicted powerlines & simple LINEAR inline filters, RFI can be removed effectively without affecting our music.

c-J

[cheap-Jack]

HI.

The idea of ferrite chokes has been around a long time and sometimes helps solve the problem.

(1) Some of the modern (and expensive) devices are quite good even for high power amplifiers. YMMV

(2) If you have a highly resolving, most of these inexpensive suggestions will (IMHO) cause more problems than they will cure.

(1) Something DONE is better than nothing done, correct? Put aside the technical ground that supports using such RFI ferrite rings, those rings are so cheaply available. Why not try them on as 'supplement' to other RFI installatons? It won't hurt!

(2) Really? Have you ever tried them before commenting? So what would YOU suggest us to use that would not cause "more problems" before wrecking our wallets.

FYI, I have a "highly resolving" audio at home as I can hear the sonics of powerline isolation transformers & filters. It also tells me simple inline RFI filters do the job big time without screwing up my vinyl music & wrecking my wallets.

Be a smart consumer by spending money wisely.

c-J

[cheap-Jack]

Hi.

I find that isolating all the digital equipment on a separate line from all the analog equipment gives the biggest bang for the buck, from a sonic perspective.

BINGO !!!

That is exactly what I have installed for many years & what I am suggesting here.

Be a wise consumer, buds.

c-J

[rollo]

   The Topaz Ultra ISOTX is a non evasive isolation trannie. Meaning does no sonic harm that we could detect.
However I would use the IT on digital only. Just do not care for Isolation trannie on Amps. Not all  are the same sonically. Some rob dynamics, others alter the soundstage bringing it way upfront.
  If one happens to use a PI Audio Uber then from panel a surge protector first, then ISO then Uber for digital. For Amps just another Uber. All fed from dedicated lines, one each.

  charles

[rw@cn]

HI.
(1) Something DONE is better than nothing done, correct? Put aside the technical ground that supports using such RFI ferrite rings, those rings are so cheaply available. Why not try them on as 'supplement' to other RFI installatons? It won't hurt!

(2) Really? Have you ever tried them before commenting? So what would YOU suggest us to use that would not cause "more problems" before wrecking our wallets.

FYI, I have a "highly resolving" audio at home as I can hear the sonics of powerline isolation transformers & filters. It also tells me simple inline RFI filters do the job big time without screwing up my vinyl music & wrecking my wallets.

Be a smart consumer by spending money wisely.

c-J

1) As I said YMMV.
2) I've tried quite a few with mixed results. So far the best have been Synergistic (which doesn't do surge protection) and Running Springs.
3) How I spend my money is my business. How you spend your money is your business. I don't need a rude lecture from you.

[Occam]

i have had good results using simple quality medical/lab-grade isolation transformers, that can be bought on ebay for pennies on the dollar...

doug s.

A medical isolation transformer is not appropriate for home use. They provide 'isolated power', unreferenced to ground, just the thing for working around explosive aneshetics, as the initial spark is mitigated, but around ground referenced AC feeds, a substantially increased shock hazard. One should modify the internal connections to rebond safety ground to the appropriate secondary lead to insure proper polarity and neutral.


I actually own that Toroid Corp. medical isolation transformer unit  referenced. It is, to be charitable, a mediocre  AV conditioner, at best, whether run in it original isolated configuration, or reconfigured as a code compliant and safer isolation transformer with a proper ground-neutral bond. The standard 3 amp Felix will stomp it. But that does require minimal diy skills, as does properly re-configuring a medical isolation transformer with a proper neutral.

FWIW

[doug s.]

A medical isolation transformer is not appropriate for home use. They provide 'isolated power', unreferenced to ground, just the thing for working around explosive aneshetics, as the initial spark is mitigated, but around ground referenced AC feeds, a substantially increased shock hazard. One should modify the internal connections to rebond safety ground to the appropriate secondary lead to insure proper polarity and neutral.


I actually own that Toroid Corp. medical isolation transformer unit  referenced. It is, to be charitable, a mediocre  AV conditioner, at best, whether run in it original isolated configuration, or reconfigured as a code compliant and safer isolation transformer with a proper ground-neutral bond. The standard 3 amp Felix will stomp it. But that does require minimal diy skills, as does properly re-configuring a medical isolation transformer with a proper neutral.

FWIW

i have a balanced felix; i agree it's better.  i use my felix for my front end; but isolation x-formers between the felix and source equipment are plugged into the felix.  i also have this toroid exact unit.  it is perfect, imo, for plugging a cd transport, tuna, etc, into it.  if you plug your cd transport/tuna/etc into a preamp w/interconnects, your system will be grounded.  if none of your equipment is plugged into a grounded power conditioner, or directly into the wall, then yes, you then might have a grounding issue.

ymmv,

doug s.

[Occam]

Doug,

Balanced Felix? Do you mean a Felicia? If so, ditch the Felicia and build yourself Felix(s). Its simpler and works far better, both objectively and subjectively. Regardless of its positive reception, I will always view the Felicia project as an indiscretion of my youth. 

The code prohibition against mixing ground referenced mains power (as in one's home) with isolated power has nothing to do with grounding equipment. [components powered by isolated power still have safety grounded chassis when non Class II.] Not relevant to this discussion is the fact that relying upon an interconnect to establish a safety ground is dangerous and unnecessary. Using interconnects to establish signal ground continuity, with a single component link between signal and safety ground is just fine, but a different matter entirely.
Neither you or I get a vote on the safety of mixing of isolated and conventional ground referenced mains power. It would be simpler and safer to simply establish an appropriate safety ground/neutral bond on the secondary of the medical isolation transformer(s), or simply parallel multiple Felixs for isolation without endangering yourself and others.

FWIW

[Diamond Dog]

Whether or not the OP needs power conditioning is not for me to say, but some surge protection might not be a bad idea...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/story/2012/03/07/science-solar-storm.html

D.D.