Is DVD-A "winning" the format war?

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #60 on:** 13 May 2004, 01:41 am »

It's a shame that more of the selections aren't available in both formats, IMO. There are some: many Diana Krall, Beck's "Sea Change", Police Greatest Hits, several from Naxos. Wish many you have to choose: Pink Floyd only on SACD, Flaming Lips only on DVD-A, etc. I realize that for stores double and triple inventory is not a good thing, so from a retailing standpoint having one clearing "win" would be an advantage. But not necessarily so for consumers.

Russkon- do you do more of your listening to SACD in stereo or MC? One gripe I have it that a lot of the SACD stuff is stereo only. Yes, much of it is legacy stuff that originally was released in stereo, but I often find a good MC remix is satisfying.

I have a couple things I bought just assuming there were MC only to find them 2 CH only.

I've not had any luck reselling them, either.

RussKon · « **Reply #61 on:** 13 May 2004, 01:53 am »

Quote from: Rob Babcock

Russkon- do you do more of your listening to SACD in stereo or MC?

most of my titles are MC.... i have cindy lauper, carol king, billy joel, tower of power, and buddy rich SACD's that are just stereo.... the carol king recording is just poor..... the others are done well with better sound than a redbook CD....

i do prefer the MC recordings....

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #62 on:** 13 May 2004, 04:22 am »

My Joe Satriani "Engines of Creation" is only stereo, and it doesn't really "blow away" the CD layer. It's actually pretty subtle, but then again it's a superb sounding CD to begin with.

DSotM is one disc that really shoulda been MC from the start, if only it was technically practical in the day.

I have a superb recording of the Planets with the newer "Pluto" movement that's only 2 Ch. That blows since there are a couple MC versions of the precise same recording!

The site I ordered it from didn't have very complete info, so I rolled the dice & it come up "snake eyes." Very nice recording (for stereo) on Hyperion. Oh, well.

Most of DKs discs are out in MC, on both formats. The brand new one is only on SACD now but shortly will be on both.

There are several recordings I bought in both formats for the express purpose of comparing the two versions...

infiniti driver · « **Reply #63 on:** 13 May 2004, 06:00 am »

Quote

the carol king recording is just poor.

Thank you for finally admitting my point..except, their are nothing wrong with Carol Kings' recordings or mixes. As a personal fan of her music, in the early to mid and late 70's, I collected her art BECAUSE OF THE HIGH FIDELITY OF THE SONGS. All my Carol King music sounds STELLAR and I enjoy it quite often. Some of the finest recordings and mixes I own. "Jazz Man" is especially sweet as well as "Corazon", anything from "tapestry" and "fantasy" are excellent sounding works. Really good references.

BTW, We spent 5 hours together back in the 80's and we both commented on how killer her engineering staff was.

You are experiencing POOR MASTERING done in SACD. The abortion of the SACD format. Poor control, poor ears doing mastering and butchering.

I appreciate you verifying my earlier statements.

As a gift to you, tell me what songs sound nasty and I will be happy to send them to you on redbook the way they are supposed to sound, like my vinyl and the masters I have obtained copies over the 25+ years I have been an engineer in the recording arts. PM and send me the info any your address. Be prepared to hear something special.

I am not sore at you..I want you to truly be educated in something you are missing. Don't you want to see this first hand?

PS. Did the recordings really sound bad to the mix engineer when they were cut to vinyl?

No. They were awesome and should also be AWESOME on the SACD.

My Point exactly.

infiniti driver · « **Reply #64 on:** 13 May 2004, 06:10 am »

Rob, the DSOM 4channel on vinyl mixed by AP is very nice.

Master of the Azimuth Coordinator

This was 2 years before we worked togeather.

Link here...

http://www.stereosociety.com/foursides.html

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #65 on:** 13 May 2004, 06:19 am »

Very interesting. I'll read that article tomorrow as it's getting a bit late tonite. Forgive me if it's in the link, but I thought I read that Parson's wasn't involved with the new MC mix?

I like both SACD & DVD-A, and from a features/ergonomics standpoint each has it's advantages. I like the fact that many current SACD's are hybrids that I can use to burn compilations & backups, and I like that they all simply play when you put them in the player. On the other hand, most of the newer DVD-As will also play automatically and allowing skipping & direct track access (almost no older DVD-A discs will, in my experience). I also like the fact that DVD-A almost always included extra value stuff like photo's, videos & lyrics.

There's supposed to be hybrid CD/DVD-A discs on the way before long. I'll be eager to check them out.

Without further trying to throw fuel on the fire, I'll state for the record that having listened to both formats on different brands of players as well as comparing the same recording on each type (as far as is practical- another can of worms), I like both but I will usually buy the DVD-A if there's a choice between the two. Basically I think they sound a bit better.

infiniti driver · « **Reply #66 on:** 13 May 2004, 06:37 am »

Rob, they are consistant. That is what I like. You are correct, Alan was not even approached for the involvement of the SACD "REMIX/REMASTER" and did you get a chance to read his POV of the situation?

The Sub requires a full range driver to get all the sounds from that channel. No One I know is aware of that at this time.

I have a 1000000+ (over one million slices) band spectrum analyzer on ever channel in plain view. It is a tool for precision mastering. Airplane pilots know the power of the instuments. Without them...well....

ALan says:

Any Colour You Like. “On the downbeat every four bars [starting at 1:46], there’s a bass-synth note that’s totally missing from James’s mix.”

The reason is if the sub is not full range (it is a full range mix on the sacd) you will miss the bass synth due to fact of your crossover is filtering it out. The note is synth meaning alot of 4K info coming through. It is on the SACD...but if you do not have a full range speaker on the sub mix, gone!
Article:

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article.asp?section_id=1&article_id=444&page_number=2&preview=

RussKon · « **Reply #67 on:** 13 May 2004, 08:15 pm »

Quote

You are experiencing POOR MASTERING done in SACD. The abortion of the SACD format. Poor control, poor ears doing mastering and butchering.

taking the quote out of context does nothing to support your position....

the full quote...

Quote

most of my titles are MC.... i have cindy lauper, carol king, billy joel, tower of power, and buddy rich SACD's that are just stereo.... the carol king recording is just poor..... the others are done well with better sound than a redbook CD....

and as for your comment...

Quote

I am not sore at you..I want you to truly be educated in something you are missing. Don't you want to see this first hand?

i'll be sure to get the other four stereo SACD recordings that i own over to you so you can hear the improvement over the standard redbook versions....

good luck with your crusade against SACD!

infiniti driver · « **Reply #68 on:** 13 May 2004, 08:23 pm »

This is where you are mistaken. I do not have a cruisade against SACD. I want to see it work out..but people need to come to the position of doing good work with the format. If I did not care about SACD, I would not post the "issues" Hopefully by making them public, something may be done about it.

Carol King certainly should sound killer on your SACD. If it does not, what IS the problem. You tell me, the recordings and mixes are darn nice here.

The only excuse is the format needs to be used as intended and not a money grab.

RussKon · « **Reply #69 on:** 13 May 2004, 10:00 pm »

Quote from: infiniti driver

This is where you are mistaken. I do not have a cruisade against SACD. I want to see it work out..but people need to come to the position of doing good work with the format. If I did not care about SACD, I would not post the "issues" Hopefully by making them public, something may be done about it.

Carol King certainly should sound killer on your SACD. If it does not, what IS the problem. You tell me, the recordings and mixes are darn nice here.

The only excuse is the format needs to be used as intended and not a money grab.

again, you ignore my comments about the other stereo SACD's that i own....

you don't present much of a case if you just ignore the facts that you don't agree with.....

RussKon · « **Reply #70 on:** 14 May 2004, 03:14 pm »

in the spirit of this discussion....

does anyone else have some great sounding SACD and/or DVD-audio discs that have really impressed you?.... additionally, what about any really poor recordings in the same formats???

theborg · « **Reply #71 on:** 16 May 2004, 12:17 am »

This thread is in Limbo until it cools down a bit.

Members, please don't expect Facilitators to take sides if you are having a disagreement with someone. The best place to have a fight is... Fight Club.

RussKon · « **Reply #72 on:** 17 May 2004, 02:57 pm »

doug s. · « **Reply #73 on:** 19 May 2004, 03:13 am »

why does anyone really even *care* who is winning the format wars? neither dvd-a or cd is such a significant improvement over cd (they way winyl is), and the software is so limited, does it really even matter? until i walk into a commercial "record" store, & see all the dvd-a's or sacd's or ???'s on the shelves, i don't really care about it, & i won't be buying *any* of it...

ymmv,

doug s.