Next upgrade, new amp time?

vortrex · « **on:** 28 Nov 2011, 07:14 pm »

I got into this hobby less than a year ago and initially told myself I would build a good cheap analog system and that's it. I went with SongTowers, Jolida 202A, Jolida JD9A, and Music Hall MMF5.1. Did the tube upgrades, it sounded great, but then I almost instantly wanted more.

Fast forward 6 months and I've been through several other revisions and now my current rig consists of the following:

Cary SLI-80 with Shuguang Treasure and NOS Amperex/RCA tubes
K&K Audio Maxxed-Out Standard MM phono pre
VPI Classic with a SoundSmith Zephyr cart
Various ZU Audio cables and Shunyata Venom 3 power cords
Full GIK acoustics room treatment (arriving in a couple weeks)

I think it all sounds pretty darn good, but I still want more! The one thing I seem to be lacking is good bass and probably some dynamics, which would tell me the amp is my next upgrade? I mostly listen to rock based music at moderate levels.

I've been researching the following amps:

McCormack DNA-250 (read somewhere this sounds "warm" for a SS amp)
Butler TDB 2250 (hybrid, great reviews, probably has a "tube" sound)
Wyred 4 Sound ST-500 (cheapest, but looks hideous to me)
Van Alstine Fet Valve 400 (most expensive but seems proven to be great with Salks)

I like good mid range, something smooth and "warm", and as mentioned some better (not huge) bass. I will have an all tube pre-amp with whatever amp I get. I'm not trying to get my turntable to sound like a CD player. If you used any of these guys with Salks I would be interested in hearing your opinions.

Nuance · « **Reply #1 on:** 28 Nov 2011, 07:33 pm »

First of all, you have a very nice system; congrats! It has been a busy year for you.

The McCormack you mentioned is a great amp, but I've only heard the older revision and not the newest stuff. I do think it has a slightly warmer sound to it. The Butler is an amp I've owned, and it's pretty great with everything except the bass; it's a little loose and sloppy. The midrange is pretty top notch, though IMO. The Wyred's are also a great choice, and I think they are pretty sweet for the money. I prefer class A/B, but YMMV. Warpdrv has the big 500 watters and they can take anything we throw at them without breaking a sweat.

I haven't heard that particular AVA, but I am sure it's amazing. The specs are rockin'!

Cheeseboy · « **Reply #2 on:** 28 Nov 2011, 07:36 pm »

What pre amp would you use?

If it were my system I would install a tubed preamp with a SS amp.

In just installed a Digital Audio Company Cherry Amp and the new Dodd Audio Battery Preamp. The preamp is still cooking but the preliminary results are quite good.

I like your list.

McCormack used DNA 225 Can be upgraded by Steve Mccormack at SMC
The new 400/600 Van Alstines were at the top of my list as well.
I like the Cherry over the Wyred. 380 watts. Both are not the best looking.

Best of luck to you.

vortrex · « **Reply #3 on:** 28 Nov 2011, 07:56 pm »

I'm still on a budget, so I want to keep an amp at less than $2500. I'm not sure of the pre-amp yet, that research is still happening too, but it will be tube. With the W4S I can't get past the looks, lame I know, but I think I would always think of putting a CD into the Cylon looking front panel. The McCormack is on sale now for my price point and the Butler can be had used for $1600 or so. Another reason for an amp upgrade is if I want to someday graduate to something like the HT1-TL's.

kip_ · « **Reply #4 on:** 28 Nov 2011, 08:04 pm »

Quote from: vortrex on 28 Nov 2011, 07:56 pm

I'm still on a budget, so I want to keep an amp at less than $2500. I'm not sure of the pre-amp yet, that research is still happening too, but it will be tube. With the W4S I can't get past the looks, lame I know, but I think I would always think of putting a CD into the Cylon looking front panel. The McCormack is on sale now for my price point and the Butler can be had used for $1600 or so. Another reason for an amp upgrade is if I want to someday graduate to something like the HT1-TL's.

If you don't like the looks of the Wyred4Sound, D-Sonic makes ICEPower amps that should be sonically identical:

http://d-sonic.net/

srb · « **Reply #5 on:** 28 Nov 2011, 08:17 pm »

Quote from: kip_ on 28 Nov 2011, 08:04 pm

If you don't like the looks of the Wyred4Sound, D-Sonic makes ICEPower amps that should be sonically identical: http://d-sonic.net/[/quote]

If you believe Wyred's explanation as well as the reviews, the additional custom higher impedance input module boards differentiate the Wyred4Sound ICEPower amplifiers from stock implementations like the D-Sonic.

A pair of Virtue ICEBlock M5001 monoblocks would cost you $2K (20% off), offer fairly good looks (I agree that the W4S looks hideous) and feature the very popular Gary Dodd Tube Buffer input modules.

Steve

vintagebob · « **Reply #6 on:** 28 Nov 2011, 08:36 pm »

I'm using the McCormack 250 in my main system and prefer it to the AVA FET 550 that I own. My Salk's are HT2-TLs.

Cheeseboy · « **Reply #7 on:** 28 Nov 2011, 08:43 pm »

The DAC 4800 is being phased out at Digital Amp Company. It is the most SET sounding in thier line. I think it is at $1800? It is not an ICE product. Look at thier circle here and you can learn a little more. I needed the gain so I bought the new battery preamp from Dodd instead of the buffer. I guess I like to turn it up too loud. Does your Cary integrated have a pre out?

In my particular application I found the Wyred to be a little clinical. That could just be because my line source speakers feature many ribbon tweeters in a line array. All of those ribbons tend to pick the fly crap out the pepper. This may not be the case on your Salks.

The current McCormack was designed by the team at Conrad Johnson applying the McCormack Distributed Node Archetechture to an amp of thier own design. I have never heard it. I don't know where to find a reveiw of this amp. I was very fond of the DNA 225. They come up on Audiogon used from time to time. If you google Steve McCormack you can find pricing on the upgrades for this amp.

I was in a very similar place as I didn't have enough to buy the Van Alstine 600. It was what I really wanted. or a used DNA-500. I painted the house with the savings. There is always tomorrow.

pslate · « **Reply #8 on:** 28 Nov 2011, 09:27 pm »

Class D Audio is so good, it is a hard product to ignore. They sell complete amps now, but the looks may not be what you want. However, there are folks out there willing to build them. I know the company may be a bit out of bounds due to their DIY nature, but I still think it's an idea to consider. Also, very nice rig you have

vortrex · « **Reply #9 on:** 28 Nov 2011, 09:39 pm »

Quote from: vintagebob on 28 Nov 2011, 08:36 pm

I'm using the McCormack 250 in my main system and prefer it to the AVA FET 550 that I own. My Salk's are HT2-TLs.

care to comment on the sound? what pre are you running with it?

vortrex · « **Reply #10 on:** 28 Nov 2011, 09:41 pm »

the Cary does not have a pre out. that's kind of what I am trying to avoid also, a too clinical sound. I would like to keep the budget under the $3k for the AVA, unless it really is a must have amp for the sound I want.

Quote from: Cheeseboy on 28 Nov 2011, 08:43 pm

The DAC 4800 is being phased out at Digital Amp Company. It is the most SET sounding in thier line. I think it is at $1800? It is not an ICE product. Look at thier circle here and you can learn a little more. I needed the gain so I bought the new battery preamp from Dodd instead of the buffer. I guess I like to turn it up too loud. Does your Cary integrated have a pre out?

In my particular application I found the Wyred to be a little clinical. That could just be because my line source speakers feature many ribbon tweeters in a line array. All of those ribbons tend to pick the fly crap out the pepper. This may not be the case on your Salks.

The current McCormack was designed by the team at Conrad Johnson applying the McCormack Distributed Node Archetechture to an amp of thier own design. I have never heard it. I don't know where to find a reveiw of this amp. I was very fond of the DNA 225. They come up on Audiogon used from time to time. If you google Steve McCormack you can find pricing on the upgrades for this amp.

I was in a very similar place as I didn't have enough to buy the Van Alstine 600. It was what I really wanted. or a used DNA-500. I painted the house with the savings. There is always tomorrow.

vortrex · « **Reply #11 on:** 28 Nov 2011, 09:43 pm »

Quote from: pslate on 28 Nov 2011, 09:27 pm

Class D Audio is so good, it is a hard product to ignore. They sell complete amps now, but the looks may not be what you want. However, there are folks out there willing to build them. I know the company may be a bit out of bounds due to their DIY nature, but I still think it's an idea to consider. Also, very nice rig you have

I'll check it out. I built the K&K myself and had a lot of fun doing it.

avahifi · « **Reply #12 on:** 28 Nov 2011, 10:30 pm »

For your info, I just got in a nice older 550 hybrid amp (black faceplate, captive power cord). I am planning to upgrade it to a 600R and sell with a full new AVA three year parts and labor warranty and our standard 30 day satisfaction guarantee.

Asking price $2595. Might be within your budget,

Frank Van Alstine

Cheeseboy · « **Reply #13 on:** 28 Nov 2011, 11:28 pm »

In retrospect I should have thrown myself under the bus with Frank. Looks like a great deal.

vortrex · « **Reply #14 on:** 28 Nov 2011, 11:59 pm »

I think that would probably would be overkill for me. I live in housing attached on both sides and with no insulation, so moderate levels are all I need (and enjoy). wouldn't that much power melt my ST's anyway? I also don't like captive power cords.

if I go AVA I will go big and get a new 400R, although I do like the old cosmetics compared to the new I think.

Quote from: avahifi on 28 Nov 2011, 10:30 pm

For your info, I just got in a nice older 550 hybrid amp (black faceplate, captive power cord). I am planning to upgrade it to a 600R and sell with a full new AVA three year parts and labor warranty and our standard 30 day satisfaction guarantee.

Asking price $2595. Might be within your budget,

Frank Van Alstine

NIGHTFALL1970 · « **Reply #15 on:** 29 Nov 2011, 12:49 am »

Vortrex,
I highly recommend the AVA 400R amp. If you think you may need more power, go for the 600R. I think you will love them. Check out my review of it at the AVA forum. With a 30 day money back guarantee I don't think you can lose.

-NIGHTFALL1970

DigiPete · « **Reply #16 on:** 29 Nov 2011, 02:08 am »

Modwright makes some very fine amps.
I have the KWA 150 and am very happy with it.

I think those go for a wee over $3k used.
The KWA 100SE is in the ballpark.

vintagebob · « **Reply #17 on:** 29 Nov 2011, 02:32 am »

Quote from: vortrex on 28 Nov 2011, 09:39 pm

care to comment on the sound? what pre are you running with it?

The sound is fast and controlled with a great soundstage and good imaging. I'm using it with a Modwright LS100 which I really like.

Cheeseboy · « **Reply #18 on:** 30 Nov 2011, 07:55 pm »

That would light up the Salks very well. A Modwright LS100 preamp and a Van Alstine AVA 400R amp. I would get off the train right here and visit for a while.

Next on the list, a subwoofer to let your neighbors know that you care about them.

Big Red Machine · « **Reply #19 on:** 30 Nov 2011, 08:30 pm »

These are ST's - don't go overboard with the gear. They don't require a ton of watts. You can't plumb the depths with them so keep your electronics commensurately priced.