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If I understand your ear, you're going for accurate micro details seamlessly paced with excellent soundstage recreation. hmmmm... not far from my own goal. I haven't heard the plus upgrade yet but from what I understand, has a higher level of refinement. Which to me means more neutral, better control, less personality imparted from the gear.
When I read your post, I was assuming you've compared the depth of the tube vs. SS amps in the same room.
Don't forget you are at the whims of your ear/brain connection. What is musical to you is possibly/probably different than mine... and can sometimes change... especially as you get older.
Therefore, very soon, when Hugh gets his AKSA100N+ US roadshow organised, U can listen to it and make up your own mind as to whether an AKSA "sand amp" delivers good sound or not.
Quote...Pertaining to the lower powered AKSA 55 amp... I've seen Hugh mention that it is better to have two separate power supplies...One per channel. Would this still hold true going with a pure (+/- 24V) DC source...such as a battery power supply?[\quote]Like everything else under thye sun, so the battery power supplies have their pros and cons. Their greatest virtues are that they hold their voltage rock steady right up to just before they are completely exhausted, extremely small variations (in other words, first the current is drained, and the volatge is the last to go), and that by default they are perfect DC voltage sources. It is not often said, but is nevertheless true, that they have their down sides as well. The most important two are that you need a charger with them (more electronics with its own set of compromises) which jacks up their price and real world space occupancy, and much more important, they are "lazy". This means they are slow to deliver current, and it's this trait which makes them unsuitable for large current consumers, which what every power amplifier is.What this means to you is that your dynamics are radically cut down, despite tricks often used to make this problem less pronounced, everything starts to sound from more flat to downright flat.In preamps, where the current demand is far lower, this is not really a problem, so that's where batteries are used most often.QuoteThe reason I ask is because I have a separate chassis battery power supply for a gainclone project. The batter supply sits in a separate enclosure from the amp with it's own power umbilical. So, I would be able to use this power supply for either the AKSA or the gainclone. Just plug the power supply into whichever amp was being used. But, if the benefits of going with pure battery powered DC do not out weigh any quality in sound I may lose, by not going with two power supplies, then I would stick with trafos. By all means, do.QuoteDoes going with a battery power supply change any concerns of having on supply per channel? [\quote]None whatsoever, it's a power supply, and any and all concerns regarding power supplies apply to batteries as well to other forms of power supplies.QuoteDon't know??? [\quote]Well, I do have an inkling.QuoteAlso, could anyone try to explain to me how an amplifier portrays soundstage depth. What happens electrically? I can either switch SS amps or switch even a single driver tube in an amp and get different soundstage characteristics...and not only width...but depth. [\quote]If this could be quantified in simple electrical terms, there wouldn't be a single bad amp made on this planet. Or a so-so amp, or anything below excellent.In electronics, such complex relationships are usually bundeled under the term "transfer characteristics", which means so many things all at once that in specific terms in means nothing at all to a layman. Common sense tells you that for good sound, any one stage in any electronics must pass the signal just as it was sent to it, only amplified - the proverbial straight wire with a gain.WE all know that - but getting there is a TOTALLY different matter. Now, anyone who designs audio electronics, and that includes Hugh and myself, has his own idea of what should be done and how. Most are wary of even discussing the subject for fear of telling too much - or some such. While partly understandable, this has long ago degenerated to a cabal state of affairs, total secrecy and he who talks shall be beheaded sort of thing. When there is no true information, whispering and rumopuring starts, and semi-truths and outright lunacies are evetually accepted as universal truths, which is what we have now, and I'm sad to say, to a much greater extent than in the early days of home audio, as in the 70-ies.I had to tell you all this to help you understand why you are aksing a question to which there is no definite, much less a clear cut answer, and if somebody does know a few things, they are not likely to tell you the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.My own answer to you is a list of requirements and conditions you have to meet to get it, and even then it's all too easy to go wrong (in no particular order):1. Each gain stage must operate well within its real world capabilities, not its paper specifications;2. Each gain stage must produce as little distortion as possible, so as to keep the need for global feedback down to very low levels (and this is a topic of a raging war with designers);3. The overall amplifier/preamp must have a large open loop bandwidth (i.e. with no output-back-to-input feedback), so as to accommodate at the very least the audible bandwidth, or preferably twice that bandwidth. This will greatly reduce dynamic distortion forms because the need to have the NFB loop correct the mistakes is greatly reduced;4. The electronics, with the only possible exception of the power amp output stage, must be run in true, pure class A for best response. However, I believe that if this is satisfied with say 10 mA of current, you should design for 20 mA, even 25 mA, because in my view, this can be demonstrated to produce better sound staging, albeit at the cost of higher power electronics;5. In case of class AB output stages, the quisecent current (i.e. the current the output stage devices pass through signal or no signal to keep them open) should be significantly higher than is typically done. In most cases, this is set at the point of lowest distortion, which typically means 20...50 mA per output device. My contention is that 100...150 mA will produce a better sound, especially in terms of imaging and spatial information;6. The power supplies must be top notch, both in terms of quantity and quality. This means high quality transformers and capacitors, and enough of them for the given power level. In other words, the amp must have a large reserve of energy from which to draw on when required if it is to be able to reproduce transients faithfully and negotiate complex loads;7. Your output devices must be carefully selected for the job, and you must have enough of them, because using more shares the worload among them, offloads individual devices and thus reduces distortion, especially under dynamic conditions. As a small side note, Hugh and I are in complete agreement which devices, how many of them and what tolerances they must meet. Furthermore, these devices must be matched to very tight tolerances, and this is usually not done in consumer audio (they are happy with +/-5%), which is a costly process ...I could go on, but I think you see just what this particular hornet's nest you stirred feel like. But if you want me to, and if Hugh will allow it, I can go on.Cheers,DVV
...Pertaining to the lower powered AKSA 55 amp... I've seen Hugh mention that it is better to have two separate power supplies...One per channel. Would this still hold true going with a pure (+/- 24V) DC source...such as a battery power supply?[\quote]Like everything else under thye sun, so the battery power supplies have their pros and cons. Their greatest virtues are that they hold their voltage rock steady right up to just before they are completely exhausted, extremely small variations (in other words, first the current is drained, and the volatge is the last to go), and that by default they are perfect DC voltage sources. It is not often said, but is nevertheless true, that they have their down sides as well. The most important two are that you need a charger with them (more electronics with its own set of compromises) which jacks up their price and real world space occupancy, and much more important, they are "lazy". This means they are slow to deliver current, and it's this trait which makes them unsuitable for large current consumers, which what every power amplifier is.What this means to you is that your dynamics are radically cut down, despite tricks often used to make this problem less pronounced, everything starts to sound from more flat to downright flat.In preamps, where the current demand is far lower, this is not really a problem, so that's where batteries are used most often.QuoteThe reason I ask is because I have a separate chassis battery power supply for a gainclone project. The batter supply sits in a separate enclosure from the amp with it's own power umbilical. So, I would be able to use this power supply for either the AKSA or the gainclone. Just plug the power supply into whichever amp was being used. But, if the benefits of going with pure battery powered DC do not out weigh any quality in sound I may lose, by not going with two power supplies, then I would stick with trafos. By all means, do.QuoteDoes going with a battery power supply change any concerns of having on supply per channel? [\quote]None whatsoever, it's a power supply, and any and all concerns regarding power supplies apply to batteries as well to other forms of power supplies.QuoteDon't know??? [\quote]Well, I do have an inkling.QuoteAlso, could anyone try to explain to me how an amplifier portrays soundstage depth. What happens electrically? I can either switch SS amps or switch even a single driver tube in an amp and get different soundstage characteristics...and not only width...but depth. [\quote]If this could be quantified in simple electrical terms, there wouldn't be a single bad amp made on this planet. Or a so-so amp, or anything below excellent.In electronics, such complex relationships are usually bundeled under the term "transfer characteristics", which means so many things all at once that in specific terms in means nothing at all to a layman. Common sense tells you that for good sound, any one stage in any electronics must pass the signal just as it was sent to it, only amplified - the proverbial straight wire with a gain.WE all know that - but getting there is a TOTALLY different matter. Now, anyone who designs audio electronics, and that includes Hugh and myself, has his own idea of what should be done and how. Most are wary of even discussing the subject for fear of telling too much - or some such. While partly understandable, this has long ago degenerated to a cabal state of affairs, total secrecy and he who talks shall be beheaded sort of thing. When there is no true information, whispering and rumopuring starts, and semi-truths and outright lunacies are evetually accepted as universal truths, which is what we have now, and I'm sad to say, to a much greater extent than in the early days of home audio, as in the 70-ies.I had to tell you all this to help you understand why you are aksing a question to which there is no definite, much less a clear cut answer, and if somebody does know a few things, they are not likely to tell you the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.My own answer to you is a list of requirements and conditions you have to meet to get it, and even then it's all too easy to go wrong (in no particular order):1. Each gain stage must operate well within its real world capabilities, not its paper specifications;2. Each gain stage must produce as little distortion as possible, so as to keep the need for global feedback down to very low levels (and this is a topic of a raging war with designers);3. The overall amplifier/preamp must have a large open loop bandwidth (i.e. with no output-back-to-input feedback), so as to accommodate at the very least the audible bandwidth, or preferably twice that bandwidth. This will greatly reduce dynamic distortion forms because the need to have the NFB loop correct the mistakes is greatly reduced;4. The electronics, with the only possible exception of the power amp output stage, must be run in true, pure class A for best response. However, I believe that if this is satisfied with say 10 mA of current, you should design for 20 mA, even 25 mA, because in my view, this can be demonstrated to produce better sound staging, albeit at the cost of higher power electronics;5. In case of class AB output stages, the quisecent current (i.e. the current the output stage devices pass through signal or no signal to keep them open) should be significantly higher than is typically done. In most cases, this is set at the point of lowest distortion, which typically means 20...50 mA per output device. My contention is that 100...150 mA will produce a better sound, especially in terms of imaging and spatial information;6. The power supplies must be top notch, both in terms of quantity and quality. This means high quality transformers and capacitors, and enough of them for the given power level. In other words, the amp must have a large reserve of energy from which to draw on when required if it is to be able to reproduce transients faithfully and negotiate complex loads;7. Your output devices must be carefully selected for the job, and you must have enough of them, because using more shares the worload among them, offloads individual devices and thus reduces distortion, especially under dynamic conditions. As a small side note, Hugh and I are in complete agreement which devices, how many of them and what tolerances they must meet. Furthermore, these devices must be matched to very tight tolerances, and this is usually not done in consumer audio (they are happy with +/-5%), which is a costly process ...I could go on, but I think you see just what this particular hornet's nest you stirred feel like. But if you want me to, and if Hugh will allow it, I can go on.Cheers,DVV
The reason I ask is because I have a separate chassis battery power supply for a gainclone project. The batter supply sits in a separate enclosure from the amp with it's own power umbilical. So, I would be able to use this power supply for either the AKSA or the gainclone. Just plug the power supply into whichever amp was being used. But, if the benefits of going with pure battery powered DC do not out weigh any quality in sound I may lose, by not going with two power supplies, then I would stick with trafos.
Does going with a battery power supply change any concerns of having on supply per channel? [\quote]None whatsoever, it's a power supply, and any and all concerns regarding power supplies apply to batteries as well to other forms of power supplies.QuoteDon't know??? [\quote]Well, I do have an inkling.QuoteAlso, could anyone try to explain to me how an amplifier portrays soundstage depth. What happens electrically? I can either switch SS amps or switch even a single driver tube in an amp and get different soundstage characteristics...and not only width...but depth. [\quote]If this could be quantified in simple electrical terms, there wouldn't be a single bad amp made on this planet. Or a so-so amp, or anything below excellent.In electronics, such complex relationships are usually bundeled under the term "transfer characteristics", which means so many things all at once that in specific terms in means nothing at all to a layman. Common sense tells you that for good sound, any one stage in any electronics must pass the signal just as it was sent to it, only amplified - the proverbial straight wire with a gain.WE all know that - but getting there is a TOTALLY different matter. Now, anyone who designs audio electronics, and that includes Hugh and myself, has his own idea of what should be done and how. Most are wary of even discussing the subject for fear of telling too much - or some such. While partly understandable, this has long ago degenerated to a cabal state of affairs, total secrecy and he who talks shall be beheaded sort of thing. When there is no true information, whispering and rumopuring starts, and semi-truths and outright lunacies are evetually accepted as universal truths, which is what we have now, and I'm sad to say, to a much greater extent than in the early days of home audio, as in the 70-ies.I had to tell you all this to help you understand why you are aksing a question to which there is no definite, much less a clear cut answer, and if somebody does know a few things, they are not likely to tell you the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.My own answer to you is a list of requirements and conditions you have to meet to get it, and even then it's all too easy to go wrong (in no particular order):1. Each gain stage must operate well within its real world capabilities, not its paper specifications;2. Each gain stage must produce as little distortion as possible, so as to keep the need for global feedback down to very low levels (and this is a topic of a raging war with designers);3. The overall amplifier/preamp must have a large open loop bandwidth (i.e. with no output-back-to-input feedback), so as to accommodate at the very least the audible bandwidth, or preferably twice that bandwidth. This will greatly reduce dynamic distortion forms because the need to have the NFB loop correct the mistakes is greatly reduced;4. The electronics, with the only possible exception of the power amp output stage, must be run in true, pure class A for best response. However, I believe that if this is satisfied with say 10 mA of current, you should design for 20 mA, even 25 mA, because in my view, this can be demonstrated to produce better sound staging, albeit at the cost of higher power electronics;5. In case of class AB output stages, the quisecent current (i.e. the current the output stage devices pass through signal or no signal to keep them open) should be significantly higher than is typically done. In most cases, this is set at the point of lowest distortion, which typically means 20...50 mA per output device. My contention is that 100...150 mA will produce a better sound, especially in terms of imaging and spatial information;6. The power supplies must be top notch, both in terms of quantity and quality. This means high quality transformers and capacitors, and enough of them for the given power level. In other words, the amp must have a large reserve of energy from which to draw on when required if it is to be able to reproduce transients faithfully and negotiate complex loads;7. Your output devices must be carefully selected for the job, and you must have enough of them, because using more shares the worload among them, offloads individual devices and thus reduces distortion, especially under dynamic conditions. As a small side note, Hugh and I are in complete agreement which devices, how many of them and what tolerances they must meet. Furthermore, these devices must be matched to very tight tolerances, and this is usually not done in consumer audio (they are happy with +/-5%), which is a costly process ...I could go on, but I think you see just what this particular hornet's nest you stirred feel like. But if you want me to, and if Hugh will allow it, I can go on.Cheers,DVV
Don't know??? [\quote]Well, I do have an inkling.QuoteAlso, could anyone try to explain to me how an amplifier portrays soundstage depth. What happens electrically? I can either switch SS amps or switch even a single driver tube in an amp and get different soundstage characteristics...and not only width...but depth. [\quote]If this could be quantified in simple electrical terms, there wouldn't be a single bad amp made on this planet. Or a so-so amp, or anything below excellent.In electronics, such complex relationships are usually bundeled under the term "transfer characteristics", which means so many things all at once that in specific terms in means nothing at all to a layman. Common sense tells you that for good sound, any one stage in any electronics must pass the signal just as it was sent to it, only amplified - the proverbial straight wire with a gain.WE all know that - but getting there is a TOTALLY different matter. Now, anyone who designs audio electronics, and that includes Hugh and myself, has his own idea of what should be done and how. Most are wary of even discussing the subject for fear of telling too much - or some such. While partly understandable, this has long ago degenerated to a cabal state of affairs, total secrecy and he who talks shall be beheaded sort of thing. When there is no true information, whispering and rumopuring starts, and semi-truths and outright lunacies are evetually accepted as universal truths, which is what we have now, and I'm sad to say, to a much greater extent than in the early days of home audio, as in the 70-ies.I had to tell you all this to help you understand why you are aksing a question to which there is no definite, much less a clear cut answer, and if somebody does know a few things, they are not likely to tell you the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.My own answer to you is a list of requirements and conditions you have to meet to get it, and even then it's all too easy to go wrong (in no particular order):1. Each gain stage must operate well within its real world capabilities, not its paper specifications;2. Each gain stage must produce as little distortion as possible, so as to keep the need for global feedback down to very low levels (and this is a topic of a raging war with designers);3. The overall amplifier/preamp must have a large open loop bandwidth (i.e. with no output-back-to-input feedback), so as to accommodate at the very least the audible bandwidth, or preferably twice that bandwidth. This will greatly reduce dynamic distortion forms because the need to have the NFB loop correct the mistakes is greatly reduced;4. The electronics, with the only possible exception of the power amp output stage, must be run in true, pure class A for best response. However, I believe that if this is satisfied with say 10 mA of current, you should design for 20 mA, even 25 mA, because in my view, this can be demonstrated to produce better sound staging, albeit at the cost of higher power electronics;5. In case of class AB output stages, the quisecent current (i.e. the current the output stage devices pass through signal or no signal to keep them open) should be significantly higher than is typically done. In most cases, this is set at the point of lowest distortion, which typically means 20...50 mA per output device. My contention is that 100...150 mA will produce a better sound, especially in terms of imaging and spatial information;6. The power supplies must be top notch, both in terms of quantity and quality. This means high quality transformers and capacitors, and enough of them for the given power level. In other words, the amp must have a large reserve of energy from which to draw on when required if it is to be able to reproduce transients faithfully and negotiate complex loads;7. Your output devices must be carefully selected for the job, and you must have enough of them, because using more shares the worload among them, offloads individual devices and thus reduces distortion, especially under dynamic conditions. As a small side note, Hugh and I are in complete agreement which devices, how many of them and what tolerances they must meet. Furthermore, these devices must be matched to very tight tolerances, and this is usually not done in consumer audio (they are happy with +/-5%), which is a costly process ...I could go on, but I think you see just what this particular hornet's nest you stirred feel like. But if you want me to, and if Hugh will allow it, I can go on.Cheers,DVV
Also, could anyone try to explain to me how an amplifier portrays soundstage depth. What happens electrically? I can either switch SS amps or switch even a single driver tube in an amp and get different soundstage characteristics...and not only width...but depth. [\quote]If this could be quantified in simple electrical terms, there wouldn't be a single bad amp made on this planet. Or a so-so amp, or anything below excellent.In electronics, such complex relationships are usually bundeled under the term "transfer characteristics", which means so many things all at once that in specific terms in means nothing at all to a layman. Common sense tells you that for good sound, any one stage in any electronics must pass the signal just as it was sent to it, only amplified - the proverbial straight wire with a gain.WE all know that - but getting there is a TOTALLY different matter. Now, anyone who designs audio electronics, and that includes Hugh and myself, has his own idea of what should be done and how. Most are wary of even discussing the subject for fear of telling too much - or some such. While partly understandable, this has long ago degenerated to a cabal state of affairs, total secrecy and he who talks shall be beheaded sort of thing. When there is no true information, whispering and rumopuring starts, and semi-truths and outright lunacies are evetually accepted as universal truths, which is what we have now, and I'm sad to say, to a much greater extent than in the early days of home audio, as in the 70-ies.I had to tell you all this to help you understand why you are aksing a question to which there is no definite, much less a clear cut answer, and if somebody does know a few things, they are not likely to tell you the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.My own answer to you is a list of requirements and conditions you have to meet to get it, and even then it's all too easy to go wrong (in no particular order):1. Each gain stage must operate well within its real world capabilities, not its paper specifications;2. Each gain stage must produce as little distortion as possible, so as to keep the need for global feedback down to very low levels (and this is a topic of a raging war with designers);3. The overall amplifier/preamp must have a large open loop bandwidth (i.e. with no output-back-to-input feedback), so as to accommodate at the very least the audible bandwidth, or preferably twice that bandwidth. This will greatly reduce dynamic distortion forms because the need to have the NFB loop correct the mistakes is greatly reduced;4. The electronics, with the only possible exception of the power amp output stage, must be run in true, pure class A for best response. However, I believe that if this is satisfied with say 10 mA of current, you should design for 20 mA, even 25 mA, because in my view, this can be demonstrated to produce better sound staging, albeit at the cost of higher power electronics;5. In case of class AB output stages, the quisecent current (i.e. the current the output stage devices pass through signal or no signal to keep them open) should be significantly higher than is typically done. In most cases, this is set at the point of lowest distortion, which typically means 20...50 mA per output device. My contention is that 100...150 mA will produce a better sound, especially in terms of imaging and spatial information;6. The power supplies must be top notch, both in terms of quantity and quality. This means high quality transformers and capacitors, and enough of them for the given power level. In other words, the amp must have a large reserve of energy from which to draw on when required if it is to be able to reproduce transients faithfully and negotiate complex loads;7. Your output devices must be carefully selected for the job, and you must have enough of them, because using more shares the worload among them, offloads individual devices and thus reduces distortion, especially under dynamic conditions. As a small side note, Hugh and I are in complete agreement which devices, how many of them and what tolerances they must meet. Furthermore, these devices must be matched to very tight tolerances, and this is usually not done in consumer audio (they are happy with +/-5%), which is a costly process ...I could go on, but I think you see just what this particular hornet's nest you stirred feel like. But if you want me to, and if Hugh will allow it, I can go on.Cheers,DVV
When there is no true information, whispering and rumopuring starts, and semi-truths and outright lunacies are evetually accepted as universal truths, which is what we have now, and I'm sad to say, to a much greater extent than in the early days of home audio, as in the 70-ies. I had to tell you all this to help you understand why you are aksing a question to which there is no definite, much less a clear cut answer, and if somebody does know a few things, they are not likely to tell you the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
Guys, thanks SOOO much for all the great comments! DVV, thanks for chiming in.Your absolutely right...which is actually part of the reason I ask. Because I don't know. I'm not trying to become an amplifier designer or looking to make some new discovery in audio electronics. I would just like a basic understanding of how certain characteristics of sound are made/changed passed in an amplifier. I've listened to a good number of amplifiers both tube and SS. But I'm afraid I th ...
I'll spare you the technical details of what I did to my old, humble Yugo to make it into a fire breather.
Quote from: DVVI'll spare you the technical details of what I did to my old, humble Yugo to make it into a fire breather.Traded it in??Ah, couldn't resist!
Wanna talk about cooking now? I do that very well too. In fact, the army (national service is still compulsory, although in a few years, it will not be so, the army is going 100% professional) gave me a legal qualification for it way back in 1981.
QuoteFood? Did somebody mention food?....I too am a certified, tested 'New York State Food Handler' as I like to know exactly how I'm delivering food born illness. [\quote]"Certified New York State Food Handler" - holy cow, that's better than in communism, they never showed such imagination. Pray tell, what exactly does that mean?I guess I am schizophrenic then. One of me is a certified food preparationist and manager (in non-legalese, a goddamn cookie), the other one of me is a recognized food consumer and enjoyment trustee. I also worked on the post of a Sausage Preparation and Perusal For Female Kitchen Staff only. QuoteBut back to circuiitry..... Like real estate, location, location, location. A wonderful 'dead bug' prototype can turn to garbage without the proper circuit boad layout. And digital (or mixed signal) can even be worse. Hugh's PC boards are a wonderful sight to behold....Agreed. Not easy to do.Cheers,DVV
Food? Did somebody mention food?....I too am a certified, tested 'New York State Food Handler' as I like to know exactly how I'm delivering food born illness. [\quote]"Certified New York State Food Handler" - holy cow, that's better than in communism, they never showed such imagination. Pray tell, what exactly does that mean?I guess I am schizophrenic then. One of me is a certified food preparationist and manager (in non-legalese, a goddamn cookie), the other one of me is a recognized food consumer and enjoyment trustee. I also worked on the post of a Sausage Preparation and Perusal For Female Kitchen Staff only. QuoteBut back to circuiitry..... Like real estate, location, location, location. A wonderful 'dead bug' prototype can turn to garbage without the proper circuit boad layout. And digital (or mixed signal) can even be worse. Hugh's PC boards are a wonderful sight to behold....Agreed. Not easy to do.Cheers,DVV
But back to circuiitry..... Like real estate, location, location, location. A wonderful 'dead bug' prototype can turn to garbage without the proper circuit boad layout. And digital (or mixed signal) can even be worse. Hugh's PC boards are a wonderful sight to behold....
