[James Romeyn]

No business relations, just thought this might be of interest.  Mod please can or move as desired.   

At Las Vegas Magnolia AV I recently  heard the new Martin Logan "Motion 4"  monitor ($550/pr, small curved enclosure).  Beyond the inferior source and receiver, and even worse room filled  with dozens of speakers, the Motion 4 was obviously exceptional.  In maximum SPL  it sounded more like a 6.5" vs. it's 4" midbass.  I'm virtually  certain it's exceptional performance stems primarily from its Heil air-motion tweeter and to a lesser extent its aluminum baffle.   

In smoothness, natural harmonics, and musical resolution it was similar to the  latest $2200/pr ML "ElectroMotion  EXL" hybrid (improved vs. similarly priced ML, my new favorite anywhere near  this price), and several leagues beyond the well-recieved $2500/pr  Definitive Technology active-bass floor-stander (heard all three speakers at the same  time).   

My program source was Frank Vignola Live playing a Thorell guitar, with which I'm intimately familiar being that I've seen Thorell build guitars (he lives 10 minutes away), I resell and play Thorell guitars, and I saw Frank play live.       

Other monitors employing the latest small Heil air motion tweeter include ESS (exclusive Heil license holder) and Golden Ear brand (TAS reviewer heard exactly what I did in the Heil tweeter). 

From my admittedly brief exposure  to this affordable tweeter I'd rate it among the best I've ever heard including  cost no object. 

[Cheerwino]

Interesting. That's a compelling price. Here are a few reviews I found:

TONEAudio
The MartinLogan Motion 4
Great sound in a tiny package

Amazon

P.S. I have Horn Shoppe Horns upgraded with ESS Heil AMT and found I love that clear, open sound.

[James Romeyn]

Just to expand on my source and how much difference it made in my analysis (not to sell a costly guitar)...Frank's jazz Thorell guitar has a very specific type of sound.  It's thick and meaty in the midrange but simultaneously has a huge amount of air, delicacy, and wood tone, a true hat trick for this type of instrument.  Kind of the proverbial "iron fist in a velvet glove".  Down Beat reviewed and raved about a costly Thorell jazz guitar I owned and sold.     

For instance, I love John Pizzarelli (worth driving hundreds of miles to see live, as is Frank) and his guitar (7 string), and I'm obviously biased toward Thorell's guitars.  But comparing the two guitars (John plays something other than a Thorell), John's has the huge thick meaty mid range of a stellar jazz guitar, but lacks a lot of the Thorell's unique delicacy and wood tone.

Senator, I know a Thorell guitar, and this WAS the sound of a Thorell guitar.  That Heil AMT (air motion transformer) tweeter kicks heiny.  Pretty cool getting an aluminum baffle for that price too.   

[rpf]

I heard that tweeter in one of the ML small floorstanders in the Motion series and, although the unit as a whole left a lot to be desired, the tweeter, I agree, is something special.

It made the tweeter in a major brand $2k plus monitor sound broken.

The designer of my Aural Acoustics Model B speakers is working on integrating the Heil AMT into them and I can't wait to have them upgraded!

[James Romeyn]

Absolutely no comment on the larger ML with AMT.  Sadly, it's common for many large-production companies to make a great small speaker and the much larger version is overall worse (not saying that's the case here).  The larger the speaker the easier and more numerous the opportunities to screw something up.

IMO full-range single-column speaker architecture is permanently flawed by design anyway, so again, I'm hugely biased. 

[James Romeyn]

I heard that tweeter in one of the ML small floorstanders in the Motion series and, although the unit as a whole left a lot to be desired, the tweeter, I agree, is something special.

It made the tweeter in a major brand $2k plus monitor sound broken.

The designer of my Aural Acoustics Model B speakers is working on integrating the Heil AMT into them and I can't wait to have them upgraded!

By direct AB I can't over-emphasize what trash (overall) was the Def Tech, which many people seem to like (please take no offense...obviously the DT plays tons louder and goes deeper, of zero interest to me because I prefer a unique sub architecture for the lowest 2.5 octaves). 

Dorgay is one of my favorite reviewers.  He knows his stuff way better than most.   

[pjchappy]

Do you think these would make for good budget monitors for a home studio?


Paul

[TONEPUB]

I loved em more with tubes....

But nice little speakers for the money.  $550 speakers are all compromises.  Give em a test run and see what you think.  They also worked great near field listening to my computer with a ML Grotto i sub.

[Doublej]

Do you think these would make for good budget monitors for a home studio?

Paul

Seems like these might be a better bet for a home studio

http://emotivapro.com/products/powered_monitors/

[James Romeyn]

The Emotiva's look interesting.  What kinda tweeter architecture?  Can't tell from the site.  Anyone hear em?  The low prices are nuts, and biamped!   

[pjchappy]

Seems like these might be a better bet for a home studio

http://emotivapro.com/products/powered_monitors/

I'm not very concerned about being self-powered.  Beyond that, why do you think these are a better choice?

To get back on topic, Jim (or others), what are your thoughts regarding using these MLs as budget studio monitors?


Paul

[TRADERXFAN]

To TonePUb,
How did the crossover components look? -Sounds like they used decent parts, but wondering if something stands out as easy to upgrade path?

[srb]

The Emotiva's look interesting.  What kinda tweeter architecture?  Can't tell from the site.

A good monitor to compare the Emotiva Pro airmotiv5 (5.25" woofer) at $599/pair would have to be the German-built ADAM A5X (5.5" woofer) at $998/pair to determine if the Emotivas are as good (or better?) and therefore a better value.
 
Both have folded ribbon tweeters and are bi-amped at 50W/50W.
 
Steve

[pjchappy]

A good monitor to compare the Emotiva Pro airmotiv5 (5.25" woofer) at $599/pair would have to be the German-built ADAM A5X (5.5" woofer) at $998/pair to determine if the Emotivas are as good (or better?) and therefore a better value.

To stay more on topic, for any such comparisons, let's focus on comparing the above with the Martin Logan Motion 4s.

Regardless, if the reviews are true, these sound like a great candidate for an HT set-up for those with a low/mid-range budget. . .especially taking the WAF into consideration. . . or for a secondary/low-profile HT set-up.


Paul

[Letitroll98]

James, what will Duke say when you replace his custom speakers with $599/pr jobbies?  Have you been completely won over to small monitors now?  (BTW, you're OP is perfectly fine, it's been a bit quiet on Enclosures lately anyway) 

If I can be permitted to cloud the waters a bit more, rpf mentioned the larger Motion floorstanders were underwhelming.  I've heard others say they were pretty good for the money.  The design (except for the tweeter) looks completely different than the speaker under discussion here.  Usually there's a family resemblance in sound and looks in a particular model line (think PSB), what's the disconnect here?  Has anyone heard the different models in the line side by side?  (I gotta stop into BB one of these days)   

[James Romeyn]

I'm not very concerned about being self-powered.  Beyond that, why do you think these are a better choice?

To get back on topic, Jim (or others), what are your thoughts regarding using these MLs as budget studio monitors?

Paul

Tell ya something funny...I didn't really notice the bass limitations.  Maybe because I was so enthralled with the overall performance above the bass.  Again, I employ a state of art mode-cancelling distributed sub array (conservatively rated 113 dB @ 20 Hz, Duke's "Room Gain Complementary" tuning) and bass performance from two full-range single-column speakers is of absolutely no interest regardless of cost. 

But thinking about it more, I really liked what I heard even in the bass.  It's not super deep but low E on the guitar is only 82 Hz anyway (bass low E is 41 Hz).  I'm surprised to realize it's rated to only 70 Hz or so, but that spec makes sense thinking about the size and 4" midbass.  I'd employ a line filter much higher than 70 Hz with my subs.   

Seems like the aluminum baffle works well too.

For a studio monitor, if you can live with the bass limitation, I have absolutely no idea what's better than those little things.  Not saying nothing's better, but I don't know what it might be.

My prior small affordable favorite is the $1500/pr Vienna Acoustics Beethoven or some such model, likely long discontinued.

Get the Motion 4s and add a sub later if you need one.  They played loud with a receiver in a pretty good sized room, plus I think the many other unused speakers eat up power. 

It's easy, natural harmonic qualities really made me pause and consider, especially in that setup.   

[rpf]

I didn't get to hear the monitors, but I was told that they are indeed better than the floorstander. The problem with the latter is in the crossover: they are very forward sounding. Does this work in a Home Theater (which is what they're designed for) setup? I wouldn't know; not being into that.

[TRADERXFAN]

I bought a pair of these today, breaking them in now.  So far seems a bit thin sounding, but day one that isn't unexpected.

-Tony

[winslow]

While they are AMT-type tweeters, they are not Heil tweeters.

Look a lot like the Airborne marketed RT4001s to me...I have the RT20021s in my car.

[chrisby]

The Emotiva's look interesting.  What kinda tweeter architecture?  Can't tell from the site.  Anyone hear em?  The low prices are nuts, and biamped!   

the photos sure look like a monopole pleated ribbon similar to the AMT (does the "rediscovery" / resurgence of tweeters based on Dr. Heil's design have anything to do with patent expiration     )