[Tbadder1]

Jesus, Tyson!

You are smart!  I completely agree, which led me to another thought, pyschologically speaking.  Every time I by new gear I'm excited and WORRIED; every time I buy new music I'm just excited.  When new music disappoints me I feel as if I've learned something; when new kit disappoints me I feel stupid.

Therefore, at the risk of repeating Tyson, the small system lets me focus on the experience of music, whereas the expensive gear diverts my attention, splits my brain, looking for improvement like some anal retentive bean counter.

And another point, psychologically speaking.  Audiophiles exsist in a community and the support we give each other is very important.  I hesitated to list the individual pieces in my bedroom system because of comments made recently here on Audiocircle.  Comments about "flavor of the month," the "next fad," meant to criticize and project someone as naive, or inexperienced, or just plain stupid.  Most of these comments were made about the new inexpensive digital products meant to sow seeds of doubt, and I'd like to posit that doubt, more than any other emotional effect  keeps us in a cycle of buying, replacing, upgrading.  If Freud is right, and Religion is a form of mental illness, I'm wondering if bigger and better systems don't, in some way, act in the identical way?

Coming clean, my cheap-o system:
Sharp SD-101 with 1-bit cd/mp3 player/tuner
Moth Cicada speakers
Fidelity Dragon interconnects w/ daikom
Zu Cable Wax speaker wire
Oneac power conditioner
actual cost, not retail: $964

[Tbadder1]

Oh yeah, forgot.  What is my bias--detail and PRAT.  And this little baby has it in spades.  Boogie on all!

[mcrespo71]

Shit, this thread is a good read!  Tbadder be waxing philosophical in response Tyson's guru-like statements.  I love it!  There is something to this being some sort of illness/addiction.  When I was strictly a music lover and didn't give a crap about my stereo (though through my Dad I've always been at least exposed to great gear), I was just psyched to get a new album that kicked ass (e.g., Prince Sign of the Times or U2 The Joshua Tree).  It didn't matter if I listened to it on a walkman because I was spiritually moved by the music.  I'm still moved by music now, but I've become much more anal about analyzing problems in my system.  This has undoubtedly gotten in the way of me just enjoying the music.  The only times I don't analyze the sound now is commuting up to school on the subway using my discman and a pair of Grado SR-60's.  This is when I am able to just listen to the artistic intent of an album.  If I think it's really good, I'll stick it on the big rig and get closer to the music, though I still think about things like- does my CD player have enough PRAT?  Is my subwoofer integrating correctly, etc?  I never do this while listening to headphones.

Michael

[mcrespo71]

BTW, if we are listing our biases here are my top 3:

1) PRAT- if it doesn't have this, I will get up and do something else.
2) Tone- especially getting the midrange correct.
3) Imaging- more on orchestral when I want an adequate representation of the acoustic and the delineation of the orchestral players.

Michael

[JLM]

Merle, thanks for starting this thread.  

Another consideration for us gearheads is distribution of budget.  The money saved on equipment can go into buying more recordings.  I'd take a $3,000 system with 500 CDs than a $9,000 system with 70 CDs any day.

My priorities:  tonality, detail, PRAT, imaging.  Tonality is mostly about midrange and as Merle points out, should be thought of being pretty basic.  The devil IS in the details.  Too much revelation will make a majority of your music unlistenable.  Imaging is at the bottom because it usually only pertains to small ensembles of unamplified music.

Audio definitely follows the 80/20 principle (80% of the bang for 20% of the bucks).  The 20 - 20,000 Hz (10 octave) frequency range is often used as a standard.  Speakers that have a response of 40 - 10,000 Hz cover 8 of those 10 octaves and nearly all music.  (50 years ago the standard was 80 - 8,000 Hz.)  Several single driver based speakers exist that at least get close to covering that range (in room).  These drivers aren't particularly cheap, but they're usually quite efficient, they eliminate many design problems, they deliver pure sound in speakers that can be relatively inexpensive, and they place less requirements on the amp and/or source.  

Check out the Horns and Omega speakers.  Add a $500 Jolida 102B and for less than $1,500 plus source you'll have a wonderful system.  Big league performance is available with Fostex F200A drivers (30 - 20,000 Hz, 90 dB/w/m, $750/pair for drivers or $2,000/pair assembled in floorstanding cabinets).  Add a Cayin TA30 for $800 and you're living very large with appropriate source.  Now days the source of choice is an audio PC that can be DIY'd for $1,000 and allows for high quality downloads.

[azryan]

Good stuff Tyson. That's what I thought you meant, and I certainly agree.

What I find helpful is to think about if it's possible to get the best of all (or more) worlds or how it might be possible in the future.

Like how you mentioned vinyl... Some people talk about how many or most vinyl s are just totally diff. than the CD version and some make a CD-R out of the vinyl to preserve that version.
People have sited tests where an A/D/A was in the chain of a turntable and people not being able to hear it degrade anything.
If that's true for anyone (hate to say everyone right?) then those people should be able capture that onto a CD-R getting both worlds -maybe.

Or how to get the speed/detail of a near weightless planar but retain the impact of a dynamic cone. I think this one can be gotten with using multiple cones so each has little to do.

How close this comes to a planar is a test I'd like to see as it's not a matter of debate. It'd be a simple fact what the results are.

The deeper the freq. the slower the movement of any driver and I feel the less the benefit of a planars inherent speed and the more the benefit of a cone's dynamic impact.
We can see this debate it seems in our own speakers.

Or digital amps... possibly one day DSP might be included that could allow us to create the sound that certain tube amps have -whether that means just adding 2nd order harmonics or maybe something more complex?

I don't think anyone would be looking to make a digital amp sound like a solid state amp? heh

[KeithR]

I have been an avid audiophille for close to thirty years. I've owned more set-up's than I can remember. Some of these were downright expensive. [think full Naim system, Audible Illusions, C-J, ARC, ect, ect] With each system, I always found SOMETHING that really bugged me, leading me to swap something out for something else. In other words, the never ending downward audio sprial so many of us seem to fall victim to. I think part of this was due to audio magazines. Every month, there it was... something new ...

sure, but hearing higher end systems has a tendency to move you into spending more cash...it's the audiophile disease.

you never know what you're missing until you do it.  ignorance is bliss

[Tyson]

It is extremely rare that I am in such complete agreement with what others have said about me  

[Smeggy]

Excellent posts all.
For myself, also a 30 year hi-fi nut who went through an awful lot of gear before finally giving up a few years back due to frustration and ever increasing costs. Now I've restarted with a whole new outlook on things in the audio world due to a lot of what has already been said here. I'm currently doing it on the cheap... and I mean really cheap and funnily I've never had so much fun or sheer enjoyment with music as I'm having now.

I think a good part of it is not worrying about whether I have the best of this or that and get down to the nitty-gritty of choosing carefully and enjoying the end results rather than concentrating on what was playing it and analysing it to death.  

Next on the list of cheapie components to try are the Ascend Audio CBM-170's.  

[twl]

I like the idea of "high value" also. I have selected a slightly different way of getting there, but the concept is similar. I used DIY(Do It Yourself) and AIY(Assemble It Yourself) as much as I could with my system. The parts that I couldn't make, like the amplifier or preamp, I bought and modded, or had custom-made. So the result was a curious mix of home made stuff and exotic or unusual electronics. My price ticket was a bit higher than some of the other systems mentioned here, but it exhibits a "high value" profile nonetheless, to me.

I subscribed to the aforementioned "80/20" rule from another poster. I got the best I could get, to my ears, for the spectum of 40Hz and up. I used a single source - vinyl - because that is what I like, and I didn't want to spend alot on alternate sources, to keep the overall expenditure lower.

I went primarily battery powered, to minimize the bad effects of AC power grunge, without spending a ton of money on conditioning. I use a low power SET amp and high-efficiency single-driver speakers to keep the power low enough to use the battery supply. It works great, and I love it.

My System,
Teres 245 DC Signature Turntable w/battery power
Origin Live Silver Tonearm with mods
Shelter 501 MkII cartridge
Mitch Cotter MkII Step-up Transformer
MFA Magus Preamp with mods(indirectly battery powered)
David Berning Custom-Made 45 SET ZOTL with Battery power
Lowther EX3 Single-drivers in DIY Voigt Pipe cabinets with mods
All Sonoran cables
Audiopoints and Sistrum Platforms

Total cost - About $13k

Battery charging is done by Solar Power

This system is very enjoyable to listen to, and even though it is not really super low-cost, it is very competitive with many systems that cost a hell of alot more. I listen to all kinds of music, but not much organ symphony stuff.

[IanVan]

...

Another consideration for us gearheads is distribution of budget.  The money saved on equipment can go into buying more recordings.  I'd take a $3,000 system with 500 CDs than a $9,000 system with 70 CDs any day.

...

I recently put together a great system for under $1300 - http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=7892

I listen to my new system for at least 6 hours a day, usually at high volumes. I love it - the sound is superb, and it plays ALL kinds of music well (a testament to the GMA's and TI's digital amp chips.) Although I will replace the NEC (problems with some copy-controlled discs, and a creeping suspiscion that its leaving something out), I have no desire to change anything else. And I'll probably switch the NEC with a $100 Toshiba 3950.

Since I put my new system together in January, I've bought about 85 new CD's that have all been going through the rotation. The best thing about having this system in my work space, is that I'm REALLY loving all the new music I've discovered.  Most days, I never think about 'the system'.

I suspect that more than a few audiophiles start to 'upgrade' their system, spending big $$$ in the process, when they get bored with their music. My solution? Whenever you get the urge to upgrade, go to a great local music store with listening booths, spend a few hours reading online reviews and listening to song samples, and buy a few good music review magazines ('UNCUT' and 'Global Rhythm' are my favourites - both come with monthly sample CD's). Then, drop $300 on 20 brand new discs you've never listened to before.  Before you know it, you'll be loving your system again and just enjoying the music.

You'll get a lot more hours of enjoyment out of it, and you may have saved thousands of $$$ too

[Tbadder1]

Bravo Ian

There's nothing I like more than discovering new artists/cds.  I also recommend Uncut, and also CMJ, Mojo, Paste.  These are people who really care about music and write about it with passion and knowledge.  I discover most of what I know about music from these publications; they have a great sense of history, and when I find a new group (recently My Morning Jacket) the reader can find enough info so he or she can buy 3 or 4 of the best cds at one time.