[kingdeezie]

Hello everyone.

I want to move my audio equipment between my speakers.

I have read that making the rack high can effect the sound and cause reflection of some sort.

I have GR Research LS speakers.

Will moving the rack to the in between the speakers kill the sound? If I keep the rack and the equipment under a certain height will that avoid the change.

Right now the rack is off to the side, but my room is fairly small, so changing the volume with the remote, using my HT equipment, etc, etc, etc, is difficult.

The BIGGEST reason I want to move the rack into the center is because I want to try different higher end speaker cables from what I have now, but with the rack to the side, I need 18 feet of speaker cable.

$$$$$$ for anything reasonable, that I just don't have right now.

I feel the long length of the speaker cables has to be imparting or effecting my sound in some way as well.

So, any thoughts?

[wywires]

You should do it. I think that if you keep the height of the rack well below the height of the tweeters, you'll be fine. These is definitely an advantage to keeping all your cables as short as possible and shorter cables may out weigh any potential negatives of having a bunch of reflective surfaces in between your speakers.

Alex

[kingdeezie]

You should do it. I think that if you keep the height of the rack well below the height of the tweeters, you'll be fine. These is definitely an advantage to keeping all your cables as short as possible and shorter cables may out weigh any potential negatives of having a bunch of reflective surfaces in between your speakers.

Alex

The problem here is that the speakers are Line Sources....

The tweeters run almost the entire length of the speaker.

I think there might be a foot from the floor to the first tweeter, which I couldn't keep the rack under.

But I do think you are right about the cables being shorter. I am just afraid I'll make some new issues with acoustics.

Thank you for your input, much appreciated.

[Lancelot]

 
 I don't see it as a major problem- although I don't know your loudspeakers. My rack is between my speakers-the speakers are forward of the rack and  my soundstage extends well behind the rack with no obvious ill effects.

 I've noticed that the rack in the centre position often in dealers showrooms as well as at audio shows.
 Unless you have a room width of 15ft. or more, I think the sidewall rack position has its own set of compromises.

[decal]

Why don't you just try it and hear for yourself. 

[kingdeezie]

Because it is not as easy as it sounds...

I have to have an electrician come to my house and move my dedicated circuit. I have to purchase longer cables for the projector and the rear speakers.

There are more variables then just putting the rack in the middle and calling it a day. I would have done this, since I know that trying things is generally the only true way to know.

I figured maybe someone on audio circle had done something, or gone through something similar and might know.

[rpf]

If the rack is high, it will definitely interfere with the soundstage. If you keep it low, say 2' or less, it should be okay. I went from a 33" high rack to a 20" one and it made a significant improvement. I think a lower double width rack would be better than a single width higher one.

[kingdeezie]

If the rack is high, it will definitely interfere with the soundstage. If you keep it low, say 2' or less, it should be okay. I went from a 33" high rack to a 20" one and it made a significant improvement. I think a lower double width rack would be better than a single width higher one.

Would you say 2 feet total?

By total I mean the rack and the equipment. My Manley Labs Neo Classic 250s are a little tall.

[rpf]

It will really depend on your speakers. Mine are a typical 3 way. I find as long as I have everything below the level of the mid-range driver, the soundstage isn't impinged noticeably.

I don't really know how a line source will react but I imagine if you have several identical drivers and the rack is on the level of only a couple of them you would be alright.

[kingdeezie]

It will really depend on your speakers. Mine are a typical 3 way. I find as long as I have everything below the level of the mid-range driver, the soundstage isn't impinged noticeably.

I don't really know how a line source will react but I imagine if you have several identical drivers and the rack is on the level of only a couple of them you would be alright.

Noted, thank you for sharing your experience. 

[face]

I wouldn't. 

[Hipper]

Are you talking about your Man Cave as described in your Systems? I notice this is a home theatre set up. What follows refers to a stereo system only. I don't know anything about Home Theater.

My stereo system now has the rack between the speakers (see 'Less Small Room' in my Gallery). The speakers are about one foot forward of the rack. I get good sound, good soundstage and separation where the source is good quality.

The centre of the sound in stereo is not a physical reality but a perception you get from the two speakers. If you stood between the speakers you would usually get a different sound to that at your listening position. Factors that should be considered are the horizontal spread of the sound as it comes out of the drivers. Mine are supposed to be 30 degrees either side. If yours are say 180 degrees the sound may bounce off your gear unpredictably.

The biggest concerns would be reflections off the wall behind your listening position bouncing off your rack and gear and then to your ear. I don't find any problem of this in my system. I put absorbers on the wall at first but removing them made no difference.

You'll notice in my gallery I originally used a 13' x 18' sized room but put the speakers on the long wall and equipment to the side. I never tried equipment in between the speakers in this room, but it was a pig to get sounding right. Indeed that's when I learned about the benefits of acoustic treatment and digital equalisers. Before that the room was unlistenable by my current standards, notably a boomy bass.

In the end though, if you are unhappy with your sound, or think you can improve it, I would suggest spending your budget on room treatment rather then speaker cables as it will give you a bigger improvement for the money.

[MaxCast]

If it is a closed sided rack, I wouldn't put it between the speakers.
You say you have a projector.  You probably can't go too high anyway???
Go low and wide and I don't think you will have any problems if your rack is open sided.  How far from the front wall are your speakers?

[xr2]

I know moving the rack is difficult, but do you have any proxies you could use?  Can you stack a couple of end tables together and lean something against the sides to simulate your rack and see if that has an effect?

[kingdeezie]

I wouldn't.

Care to Elaborate on why please?

Are you talking about your Man Cave as described in your Systems? I notice this is a home theatre set up. What follows refers to a stereo system only. I don't know anything about Home Theater.

My stereo system now has the rack between the speakers (see 'Less Small Room' in my Gallery). The speakers are about one foot forward of the rack. I get good sound, good soundstage and separation where the source is good quality.

The centre of the sound in stereo is not a physical reality but a perception you get from the two speakers. If you stood between the speakers you would usually get a different sound to that at your listening position. Factors that should be considered are the horizontal spread of the sound as it comes out of the drivers. Mine are supposed to be 30 degrees either side. If yours are say 180 degrees the sound may bounce off your gear unpredictably.

The biggest concerns would be reflections off the wall behind your listening position bouncing off your rack and gear and then to your ear. I don't find any problem of this in my system. I put absorbers on the wall at first but removing them made no difference.

You'll notice in my gallery I originally used a 13' x 18' sized room but put the speakers on the long wall and equipment to the side. I never tried equipment in between the speakers in this room, but it was a pig to get sounding right. Indeed that's when I learned about the benefits of acoustic treatment and digital equalisers. Before that the room was unlistenable by my current standards, notably a boomy bass.

In the end though, if you are unhappy with your sound, or think you can improve it, I would suggest spending your budget on room treatment rather then speaker cables as it will give you a bigger improvement for the money.

The room is dual purpose, but it is purpose built more for 2-channel music, I just didn't know what to label it as under the systems creation station thing.

I am in the same size room as you had (have) 13x18. I have my speakers on the long wall, and the rack off to the side.

I just got done spending an extensive amount on acoustic treatments. The official list..

6 GIK Trip Traps, four in front corners, two in back
4- GIK Monster Traps one directly behind the listening chair, one direct in front of me, two behind speakers.
3- GIK 244s All on the wall behind me.
4- ATS Acoustic 2 inch panels at the side reflection points.
2- GIK QRD Diffusors at First Reflection Points.

I don't know if I could cram anymore treatments into the room, save for the ceiling, which I have been told a line source doesn't need.

If it is a closed sided rack, I wouldn't put it between the speakers.
You say you have a projector.  You probably can't go too high anyway???
Go low and wide and I don't think you will have any problems if your rack is open sided.  How far from the front wall are your speakers?

It is one of those stackable VTI racks, so it is open.

My front speakers are around 4 feet from rear wall.

I know moving the rack is difficult, but do you have any proxies you could use?  Can you stack a couple of end tables together and lean something against the sides to simulate your rack and see if that has an effect?

Interesting idea, I might have to try something like that. 

[Hipper]

I experimented with absorbers on the ceiling but it didn't seem to do anything.

I also put absorbers on the side walls - my speakers are only a foot or so away from the wall - but after I read Floyd Toole's book 'Sound Reproduction', I removed them and I think it sounds better for that - a bit more lively.

As you already have a screen between the speakers and presumably don't have any problems I don't see what difficulties a rack plus gear will cause.

The one thing I do not like about the rack between the speakers are the various lights on the equipment. I like listening in the dark, or nearly dark, and so I've covered most of the lights with flaps of dark paper.

Unless you fancy dabbling with a digital equaliser, or maybe go with active cross overs, bi-amping and so on, I would agree that upgrading speaker cables sounds like a good idea. Presumably first though you will set up with your rack between the speakers using your current cables.

[rbbert]

The farther behind the plane of your speakers the better for imaging, of course.  some heavy duty absorption or perhaps diffusion around the rack could help as well.  Another problem is that between the speakers on the back wall is usually a big bass node, which could adversely affect the sound of some of your components.

[bpape]

I would agree that pretty much anything between speakers will impact the soundstage - though a low, wide, open type of rack will have the least impact.

Bryan

[FullRangeMan]

I would agree that pretty much anything between speakers will impact the soundstage - though a low, wide, open type of rack will have the least impact.

Bryan

Very true, where there is forniture/equip there is no soundstage. For this reason I like, monoblock integrated amps:
To keep only the CD player in the center, and the monoblocks near the speaker, so there is no pre-amp and its cables.

[drummermitchell]

I moved my rack from centre to the front side wall.
Made a hole in the wall for the rack and trimmed her up,cleaned up the front real nice,
besides it was getting in the way of my planned scope screen,install tomorrow ..