[gkinberg]

I apologize in advance that this question has nothing to do with audio. Jim, If you wish to delete this thread because it doesn’t belong in your circle, I’ll understand.

My question has to do with bedroom furniture. This is the only place that I know where I can pick the brain of real quality wood craftsmen.
 
My wife and I are looking into purchasing a new bedroom set. Some sets state that they are solid birch with cherry wood veneers, for example. My initial thinking is that if the furniture is already solid hard wood, then why use veneers on it? Am I missing something? Is veneered furniture a sign of higher quality furniture or of lower quality furniture or is it just a matter of preference? Again, Jim, I hope you don’t mind me posting this here. Thanks to all for your help.

[jsalk]

No problem with your post.  The only reason I can see that they would apply veneer over solid birch is because it costs them less than solid cherry.  Otherwise, they would probably use cherry to begin with.

Some woods are better suited for veneering.  Crotch mahogany (or any wood with a wild grain pattern) is a good example.  With changes in temperature and humidity, the wood tries to move in all directions.  So slicing it thin (veneer) and applying it to a more stable base makes sense.  But with cherry, the only reason I can imagine veneering furniture with it is that you simply do not want to pay for solid cherry hardwood since it is quite stable to begin with.

I hope that helps.

- Jim

[gkinberg]

Hi Jim, Thanks for the input. All things being equal and provided you like the look of the funiture, would you go for solid wood or with veneered solid wood? It seems to me that vaneered wood might be more likely to fail (peel, crack, etc...) over time. Lastly, is it easy for a layman like myself to tell if a piece of furniture is solid wood or if it is veneered.

Thanks again, Garth

[jsalk]

Garth -

That is a difficult question.  As you know, wood "moves" with changes in temperature and humidity.  Plywood sandwiches pieces of wood with the grain running in opposite directions.  So when any given layer tries to move, it is prevented by the adjacent layers.  This means it is more stable.

If you look at a solid wood door, it often has panels in it.  Those panels float in a groove.  If they were glued in place, when they expand and contract, they would tend to break the door frame.  But since they are "floating," they can move without damaging the door.

So the more complicated the furniture is, the more you might benefit from a base of plywood and veneer over the top of it.

My guess is the furniture you are talking about is made from birch plywood, not solid birch hardwood.  In that case, it could be more stable than anything built with solid wood. 

If the veneering is done well, it should never be an issue.  There is plenty of antique furniture built a century or more ago and the veneer is still firmly attached.

I think most people would feel that solid hardwood is the best.  And some "purist" furniture designers look down upon furniture makers who use veneered plywood.  But if the furniture is well made, I just don't see it as being an issue either way.

As for being able to tell if something is veneered or not, about the only thing you can do is look at the grain pattern on the edges or corners.  If it is solid wood, you can see that the grain is continuous.  If you see breaks in the grain patterns on edges or corners, you can assume you are looking at veneer.

- Jim

[WGH]

I would go with the solid cherry if it fits within your budget, especially if you have little kids. There is no reason to do a cherry veneer unless it is cheaper for the furniture maker to use and if is cheaper where else are they saving money? Probably in the construction and the amount of glue they use too.

As Jim said, there is nothing wrong with veneer if it is done right, I do it all the time. Where is the veneered furniture you are looking at made? Do you have a link?

Wayne

[srb]

I also consider the type of furniture and its use (and abuse).
 
Speakers are generally located and left in place and there shouldn't be much wear and tear on them (except for perhaps bumping a vacuum cleaner into the base or plinth).
 
Tables, chairs, desks, etc. usually get bumped into a lot and the tops of tables and desks take a lot more abuse.  Bedroom furniture probably falls in between these pieces of furniture and speakers, so although you come may come into contact with them on a daily basis (more so than speakers), they generally don't have heavy wear and tear.
 
I personally like solid wood furniture as I don't have to wonder if the veneer might lift, crack or bubble (not all manufacturers produce veneered furniture with the same attention to detail of Jim Salk) or that a bump that might put a small dent in hardwood might go through the veneer on a veneered piece, but on the other hand I also have to agree about the stability of veneered plywood.
 
I do have two solid hardwood tabletops that have a slight crack and separation between glued-up boards even though they were protected on all surfaces with a finish and maintained periodically with a wood conditioner.
 
In some furniture pieces you will often find a mixture of both hardwood and veneered plywood, where solid hardwood is used for posts, stiles and rails where a single board can be used, and veneered plywood is used for larger surfaces like headboards or bureau tops to avoid having to edge glue several boards.
 
Steve
 

[gkinberg]

I love audiocircle, you guys are awesome.  I think that I have the info that I need. I’ll have to go out and see some items and make a judgment call. Thanks to all. Garth

[gkinberg]

I would go with the solid cherry if it fits within your budget, especially if you have little kids. There is no reason to do a cherry veneer unless it is cheaper for the furniture maker to use and if is cheaper where else are they saving money? Probably in the construction and the amount of glue they use too.

As Jim said, there is nothing wrong with veneer if it is done right, I do it all the time. Where is the veneered furniture you are looking at made? Do you have a link?

Wayne

Almost forgot. Wayne, The link is below:
http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11618177&whse=BC&Ne=4000000&eCat=BC|93|2129&N=4040121 4294899937&Mo=28&No=27&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&cat=30213&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&lang=en-US&Sp=C&topnav=
Also, for more bang for our buck I am considering going for something used off of craigslist. We'll see.

[WGH]

Actually this furniture looks pretty good. Mortise and tenon construction is the best and the parts that get the most wear are solid wood. The cherry veneer on the headboard design shouldn't get much wear (I assume). The curved drawers are solid wood too though the fronts may or may not not be veneered.

[gkinberg]

Thanks for your input Wayne. Your comments have made my wife happy. 

Garth