What HD's are you using with your BDP-1?

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c_note

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Re: What HD's are you using with your BDP-1?
« Reply #40 on: 18 Sep 2011, 03:18 am »
I finally took the plunge and ordered a BDP-1 earlier this week.  I'm reading this thread with interest as I now need to transfer my music to a portable hd.  I'm very computer illiterate, so please be patient with me.  :D

If I understand the posts correctly, there is no benefit to purchasing a USB 3.0 drive, so go ahead and buy aUSB 2.0 drive.  Would a smaller drive--say 500GB--have faster access times than a larger drive, say 750GB or 1TB?  Given how cheap extra storage space is now, it seems silly not to buy a larger drive, I just want to ensure there are no downsides to doing so.  Thank you for the advice!

skunark

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Re: What HD's are you using with your BDP-1?
« Reply #41 on: 18 Sep 2011, 03:40 am »
Size of the drive won't impact playback and there's no advantage of selecting a USB3.0 over USB2.0 unless it's cheaper or plan to sync files connected to a computer that also supports USB3.0.   

Also, keep in mind that the BDP can only supply a 500mA of current to bus powered USB drives so keep that in mind when ordering drives larger than 500GB.  Bus powered Seagate and WD both have been reported to work up to 1TB.   I have both a 1TB and 750GB WD mobile drives that work fine with the BDP but my 750GB Hitachi G-technology drive doesn't.   

headshrinker2

Re: What HD's are you using with your BDP-1?
« Reply #42 on: 21 Sep 2011, 03:05 pm »
Just a follow-up. I did pick up the Seagate 2.5 described below. Everything is working like a charm with my BDP-1.  No issues.  The silver matches the rest of my Bryston rig quite nicely...

I am considering picking up a few silver Seagate 2.5 drives currently on sale for $49.99 at Best Buy. 

Would these be appropriate for use with the BDP-1?  Didn't know if the 18" USB cable might be a problem.  Since I won't need the backup software, should I reformat the drive?   What file format?  I will most likely be ripping my audio files on my Windows XP machine, but my current FLAC hires files live on my MacBook Pro.  Will I be able to transfer these FLAC files from the Mac to the Seagate as well?

This is a good sale, but should I be considering something else instead?  Should I be considering a USB 3.0 drive instead?

Seagate FreeAgent GoFlex Ultraportable USB 2.0 500GB. 

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Seagate+-+FreeAgent+GoFlex+500GB+External+USB+2.0+Portable+Hard+Drive+-+Silver/9929098.p?id=1218196478444&skuId=9929098&st=Seagate%20500&cp=1&lp=1

jjc1

Re: What HD's are you using with your BDP-1?
« Reply #43 on: 21 Sep 2011, 04:11 pm »
Funny thing about all of this, it's data until it hits the sound card, then jitter, noise and anything that can creep up downstream.   In other words, the media software will copy the file to RAM, convert it to PCM as needed and then issue a DMA command for the sound card to pull in as needed as it spits it out of the AES and BNC ports.    The HDD's power supply if there is one, will be the main source of noise and that will probably impact not only the BDP, but whatever component is sharing the power.  The cable will not matter as the data transfer will either be correct or fail the ECC checks and log a fault for the user.  The PCB board and the chip of the HDD would be the final, but very unlikely source of noise as it's just a function power supply noise or perhaps a faulty part.


   
Funny thing about all of this, it's data until it hits the sound card, then jitter, noise and anything that can creep up downstream.   In other words, the media software will copy the file to RAM, convert it to PCM as needed and then issue a DMA command for the sound card to pull in as needed as it spits it out of the AES and BNC ports.    The HDD's power supply if there is one, will be the main source of noise and that will probably impact not only the BDP, but whatever component is sharing the power.  The cable will not matter as the data transfer will either be correct or fail the ECC checks and log a fault for the user.  The PCB board and the chip of the HDD would be the final, but very unlikely source of noise as it's just a function power supply noise or perhaps a faulty part.


  Skunark, are you saying that  the stock USB cables that came with my Seagate and WD are  good to use with the BDP1 and that supposedly "upgraded" USB cables are a waste of money? I value your opion as an electrical engineer.

terrycym

Re: What HD's are you using with your BDP-1?
« Reply #44 on: 21 Sep 2011, 05:51 pm »
     Skunark, are you saying that  the stock USB cables that came with my Seagate and WD are  good to use with the BDP1 and that supposedly "upgraded" USB cables are a waste of money? I value your opion as an electrical engineer.

Correct on both counts, as is USB3 if all you ever use the drive with is your BDP-1.

"Upgraded" USB cables may have more bling, depends what value you put on that but as I can't see my cables, I don't care.

I'm a Chartered Electronics Engineer.

skunark

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Re: What HD's are you using with your BDP-1?
« Reply #45 on: 21 Sep 2011, 05:53 pm »
It's a loaded question for sure!     Keep in mind that a USB DACs use a different protocol than a USB HDD so it's a different beast.  For example, A USB HDD uses a reliable "bulk transfer" vs an unreliable "ischronous transfer", so you can always be assured that the bulk transfers will safely deliver the data or that a fault is logged otherwise. 

With that said, there's no advantage of using an aftermarket cable for bus-powered or wall-warted USB hard disk drives in terms of transferring the data reliably.  The self-powered USB drive will probably leak noise from the wall-wart power supply, this won't impact the data and as stated before the data isn't influenced by jitter or noise until it hits the sound card.  If the wall-wart is noisy, then it might leak to any device that shares it's electrical connections either via the USB cable or power cable, but there are a number of factors that can influence that.    Luckily it's a pretty easy test to see if your wall-warted USB drive is adding noise to the system since the BDP-1 comes with a thumbdrive and it's easy to copy the same song to both drives and compare (with wallwart plugged in vs unplugged).

The ischronous transfers used by synchronous USB DACs is at the heart of the issues for jitter for several reasons: usb utilization, chipset jitter, and if the cable influences jitter or is susceptible to noise.  Asynchronous and Adaptive DACs re-clock the audio stream but the transfer is still unreliable where several bytes could be incorrect or lost.  You can argue that SPDIF is just as unreliable but data loss would only be one or two bits (not several bytes) and with a much slower clock frequency, jitter is a significantly larger concern.

With that said, my BDP is stuck at using 2 1TB bus-powered drives until Bryston releases it's HDD enclosure (and it better not have wall-wart power supply! :) ).

terrycym

Re: What HD's are you using with your BDP-1?
« Reply #46 on: 21 Sep 2011, 05:58 pm »
Thinking about it, wouldn't a shielded USB cable be advantageous?

skunark

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Re: What HD's are you using with your BDP-1?
« Reply #47 on: 21 Sep 2011, 06:50 pm »
Thinking about it, wouldn't a shielded USB cable be advantageous?

High and Full speed USB cables are required to be shielded and should be properly terminated.   In other words, your low-speed USB mouse, keyboard, ps3 controller are not required to use a shielded cable, but your HDD, camera, dac usb cables have to.   Even the type of cable shielding is called out in the USB specifications.