[sonik]

I know that the Denon DL-110 is a very popular cartridge and would appreciate some advice on DL-110 loading.  I have a recent (March, 2010) Technics SL-1200 Mk2, which probably has the high capacitance (300 pF) tonearm cables - according to KAB as well as the part number on the cable.  The input capacitance of my phono preamp is about 100 pF.  In theory, 400 pF total capacitance is not ideal for most MM cartridges, and I'm looking for an alternative.  Have enjoyed a Grado Gold 1, but there is a minor hum issue.  Based on your experience with the DL-110, do you think that the high capacitance would compromise its performance.  The best solution to the problem is to change the tonearm cable, but I really don't wish to get into that at this time.  Thanks.

Ken

[royphil345]

Most modern cartridges would not like capacitance that high. I've found the Shure M97xE seems to like higher capacitance and it can thin out the stuffy midrange some. People have been raving about the sound of the M97xE with the Jico SAS stylus. I've read posts by a few people who ditched their Audio Technica AT150MLX for this combo. Maybe that's a direction you could head in.

[TheChairGuy]

sonik,

The Denon DL-110 is a moving coil-type cartridge.  Yet, because it has ample output, you plug it into your MM inputs of your phono preamp.

One of the major benefits of moving coil designs, whether hi or lo output, is their inherently low internal inductance.  This largely makes the issue of high capacitance wiring or loading at your phone inputs moot.  Unless you are running HUMONGOUS capacitance en route (like, perhaps 3000pf +), it doesn't affect it's usable output within the hearing range of 20-20K.

MC's often benefit from different resistive loading points....tho from what I have read, most folks find std 47K to be fine with the DL-110 (the higher line DL-160, now officially discontinued by Denon in the US) seemed to benefit from lower loading points than 47K.

I run my DL-160vdH at 47K and it sounds plenty good enough.

John

[starkiller]

Have a Denon DL-110 on my 90's SL-1200 MK2 and its a pretty stunning combination. My phono preamp is the Simaudio Moon LP3 and the cart sounds great through the MM inputs.

[sts9fan]

I use 47K with my DL-110 and Pass Pearl also.

[Letitroll98]

Well I'll be the dissenter here and posit that 47k ohms is way too high to properly load the Denon DL 160 and that 1k ohm is what I and many others have found to be correct.  The DL 110 has a somewhat lower internal inductance than the 160 (380uH vs 490uH @ 1kHz respectively), so I'd guess that 1k ohms would be a good starting point.  John is correct that these cartridges are largely immune to changes in capacitive loading, but not entirely as there are effects in the ultrasonic.

The whole subject of resistive loading a MC cartridge is highly debated.   It's not something exactly measurable like the high frequency knee in MM's capacitive loading.  Add in that the internal (or coil) inductance of HOMC's is much higher than LOMC's, and it becomes more clouded.  Generally stated with lower resistive loading you'll deepen the soundstage and sweeten up the high treble, while depressing dynamics and soundstage width.  So it's a balancing act that depends very much on personal taste and the configuration of your system.  The Hagerman calculator, although flawed, may give you a good starting point.

http://www.hagtech.com/loading.html

[sonik]

Thanks for your responses....I've just placed an order for a 110.

Ken

[DaveyW]

Hi Guys,
I found the DL110 to be a little tonally different on my rig (Sondek/Ittok) to the DL160.
As Letitroll found, I also preferred the stock 160 at a much lower resistance. Into 47k it was a little lean and firey up top for my tastes. At 1k it just came together, filled out nicely and that shrillness in top end fully tamed.
The DL110 however felt about right straight into a 47k Ohm load.

Enjoy Sonik - The DL110 is an excellent cart and remains one of the true bargains out the moment.

Cheers
Dave

[drphoto]

I'm running the DL-160 into a Mapletree Ultra 4SE, which is rated @ the std. 47k Ohm. Sounds good to me, but it would be interesting to try a lower load based on these comments. I don't have the money for an outboard phono stage w/ adjustable load, like a Nitehawk. Are there any adapters that can go between the phono cable and the pre? Sort of like the ACI passive hi-pass filters that go before the amps on my main speakers.

thanks for any advice.

[Wayner]

 

[DaveyW]

Spot on.
Application of an external parallel load is how I go about it too.
I've built an infinitely variable loading box, others use various RCA plugs with differing resistances.
You end up running a resistor in parallel to the phonostage, effectively reducing the overall load.
Simple, cheap and most of all very effective.

[drphoto]

Is there a chart somewhere for the resistor values? I assume it inserts on one leg of the connector, sort of like a light switch....correct?

DaveyW, do you have a link to a plan for the varable load box, or is something you cooked up? Is it something as simple as a pot on one leg, with in/out jacks? If so what value range?

thanks.

[Letitroll98]

Is there a chart somewhere for the resistor values?

R = 1/(1/r+1/r)

Or you can use this calculator:
http://www.1728.com/resistrs.htm

Or this one:
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-paralresist.htm

[DaveyW]

DaveyW, do you have a link to a plan for the varable load box, or is something you cooked up? Is it something as simple as a pot on one leg, with in/out jacks? If so what value range?

thanks.

Basically yes, a pair of calibrated 100k pots with    switchable in series resistors. I had to tinker with earthing to manage some initial hum issues. Plugs and splitters are a pretty safe way to go though.
Follow Letitroll's calc -  to be honest popping a 1k resistor in parallel to the stock 47k will deliver  a result close enough to a 1k total.
Cheers 
Dave

[BaMorin]

Is there a chart somewhere for the resistor values? I assume it inserts on one leg of the connector, sort of like a light switch....correct?

DaveyW, do you have a link to a plan for the varable load box, or is something you cooked up? Is it something as simple as a pot on one leg, with in/out jacks? If so what value range?

thanks.

And If you Ask Dave, I bet he has a very nice set of loading kits he can taylor to your resistive needs..........I have two sets of them. Impeccable build quality.
I can load my various MI carts from 8K through 39K.....takes seconds to make the switch of the plug in resistors.

Marc   (aka happy camper)

[Wayner]

 

This will put any load you want on any cartridge. The dip switches are for loads from about 20 ohms up to 47K ohm, the variable goes up to 100K.

It is a DIY I made for myself. The 2 sets of test lead jacks are used to confirm the loading selected.

Wayner 

[DaveyW]

Very Nice Looking Piece of Kit there Wayner 

This is my home brewed version of a similar approach



I've found dialing in a variable loading on the fly really helps to pin down the preffered setting.
I'm sure you've found the same with your dipswitch approach.

Cheers
Dave

[TheChairGuy]

Dave,

Wayner's box looks like straightforward kit I'd expect from him - a grizzled engineering guy from the Midwest U.S.

Yours, however, speaks of a madly passionate scientist and artist

It's a trip to see 2 boxes side-by-side that perform much the same function...look so dramatically different

Good show gents - the most interesting things in life are our very selves

John