[Quiet Earth]

Which of the (stock) Grados represents their best value? Is there one that captures the lion's share of their best effort? Just askin'.

Glad the cart is working out for you too ric! Sounds like you made a good choice.

[BobM]

I would guess the Sonata, since it is a good step up from the Platinum and not a whole lot more money.

[macrojack]

I'm using a Denon DL 103. Aside from output level, how would that compare to Grado wood bodies? Which is the least expensive Grado that would represent an upgrade for me?

[TheChairGuy]

Which of the (stock) Grados represents their best value? Is there one that captures the lion's share of their best effort? Just askin'.

Glad the cart is working out for you too ric! Sounds like you made a good choice.

It depends.

If you want to step into the Grado line as inexpensively as possible....go for the Green1 model and do the Longhorn mod (as explained by Mr. van Alstine over 25 years ago)

A generous step from there would be to find an older Grado with shibata shape - the G1 or G2+ come to mind - and use them in place of the stock (and very cheapie) Green stylus and assembly.  They are interchangeable in the line.

I have a Grado Gold (I think I bought from Wayner for $100 used), a G1+ stylus assembly ($75 on ebay I think) and $2 in brass u-channel, modelling clay and silicone 1000cst oil. Using the Green as your base cartridge is very cost effective as the difference between the Green and Gold is only the use of purer copper coils in the Gold (relatively slight as I own both of them)

For $177, I kid you not, this cartridge sounds superb.  AC member browntrout kindly lent me his Grado (Woodie) Master (at least I think it was this one) and it sounded great...but I still preferred my modded Gold / G1+ / Longhorn to it.  Sorry Ben - but again thanks for your graciousness.

Remember that extraordinarily helpful to the cause is having pivot damping in your tonearm.  It considerably tightens up the Grado sound.  VPI, who sells Grado cartridges, specifically mentions the use of oil damping for Grado users.

Regards, John

EDIT: just saw this and would recommend this as the best and least expensive way to experience Grado without DIY'ing: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=77389.new#new

[macrojack]

Through a strange set of circumstances I became a Grado dealer a few years ago and I still have about a half dozen of their plastic body cartridges somewhere around here. Lately I have been thinking about buying one of their wood bodies. When I saw this thread, I wondered if anyone out there could tell me how the various Grado wood body options might compare to what I have been using.
By the way, if a group buy would be of interest, I can do that.
Any of their products are available. If you are in Colorado, I would have to charge sales tax. If nobody is interested, that's fine too. I'm not really in biz and that is the only line I currently can access.

[Browntrout]

No worries at all John, it was the Reference I lent you and that I listen to. I also listen to it on an undamped unipivot and love it. Up the differences!

[ricmon]

Here she is with the Grado in all her glory (ok I'm snowed in nad all I's got to do is work from home and listen to music  )

[doctorcilantro]

I would guess the Sonata, since it is a good step up from the Platinum and not a whole lot more money.

Time to revive this thread. I'd have to concur regarding the Sonata.

I recently got a good deal from my dealer decided to replace my Statement Reference with the newer State. Ref.1. Haven't tried it yet as I'm in the middle of putting together my new table.

One thing Grado always claimed is that medium to heavy tonearms work best; they have emailed me this directly in the past. But, from personal experience I have found they are IDEAL for ultra-low effective mass arms like linear air bearings. The high compliance coupled with weight of cart and the low mass arms gets you on the top end of the 8-12hz resonance. I think my last setup was 11hz which is fine by me.

Can't wait to get the new one up and running...it's been a long time coming due to family life events.

Slick setup there ric!

[ricmon]

Time to revive this thread. I'd have to concur regarding the Sonata.

I recently got a good deal from my dealer decided to replace my Statement Reference with the newer State. Ref.1. Haven't tried it yet as I'm in the middle of putting together my new table.

One thing Grado always claimed is that medium to heavy tonearms work best; they have emailed me this directly in the past. But, from personal experience I have found they are IDEAL for ultra-low effective mass arms like linear air bearings. The high compliance coupled with weight of cart and the low mass arms gets you on the top end of the 8-12hz resonance. I think my last setup was 11hz which is fine by me.

Can't wait to get the new one up and running...it's been a long time coming due to family life events.

Slick setup there ric!

thanks doctorcilantro about the TT set up.  But you are making me wonder about something I some times hear on some of my lp's.  On some lp's I get a slight resonance during play back.  Not being very technical I attributed it to the way the grooves are cut since 99% of my lp's sound marvelous.  Now you have me wondering is this also a byproduct of heavy cart light arm 

[doctorcilantro]

The rec. high mass because with high compliance cart you can get down to 8hz-ish resonance. But using a low mass arm you can still get at worst maybe 11hz.

Try plugging in 10cu into the last calculator. You'll see you have much less leeway/control with low compliance.

I doubt your am, from quick glance, is lighter than mine which I have calculated to have an effective mass of about 3.5g (carbon fiber MG1).

Are you getting the feedback at loud volumes?

[ricmon]

The rec. high mass because with high compliance cart you can get down to 8hz-ish resonance. But using a low mass arm you can still get at worst maybe 11hz.

Try plugging in 10cu into the last calculator. You'll see you have much less leeway/control with low compliance.

I doubt your am, from quick glance, is lighter than mine which I have calculated to have an effective mass of about 3.5g (carbon fiber MG1).

Are you getting the feedback at loud volumes?

No feed back just a little resonance in the form of itchiness.  that's why I think this is groove/cut related as it only shows up on a few lp's.  Maybe a longhorn mod would totally eliminate this phenomenon. Although I must make this point.   THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TRACKING.......some people like to regurgitate the misinformation that Grados are bad trackers.

Ric

[Ericus Rex]

Is the idea just to get this res. freq. as low as possible?  Or shoot for a target number?

The rec. high mass because with high compliance cart you can get down to 8hz-ish resonance. But using a low mass arm you can still get at worst maybe 11hz.

Try plugging in 10cu into the last calculator. You'll see you have much less leeway/control with low compliance.

I doubt your am, from quick glance, is lighter than mine which I have calculated to have an effective mass of about 3.5g (carbon fiber MG1).

Are you getting the feedback at loud volumes?

[doctorcilantro]

Good point.

The canon is that when or if it is too low it will be affected by record warp, off center pressings etc.,  and it will increase the risk of mistracking.

 Buddy:

While I have had the occasional mistracking issue on my system (with a resonance of 6hz!) it only tends to happen with the beat-up stuff that doesn't have that much warp to it.

I shoot for the aforementioned 8-12hz and my last system was 11.

I am now, officially, in a very vinyl mood.

[Quiet Earth]

Is the idea just to get this res. freq. as low as possible?  Or shoot for a target number?

There is a school of thought that suggests it should be within the range of 8 to 12 Hertz.

[jimdgoulding]

I have a Grado Sonata Reference in a Rega arm.  I think it is a very good balance of things and it does dimensionality real good.  I'm probably gonna send my Rega to Origin Live in the UK for their $500 mod.  The thing about replacing the cartridge is that I think I would have to spend in excess of $500 to get much discernable improvement.  I also have a first generation Koetsu Black.  The thing about the Grado is that it never seems to mistrack and music is pleasant (never shrill) and insightful regardless of frequency demands or volume.   

[Ericus Rex]

Nice new pic, Doc!   

Thanks for the answers guys!