[Wayner]

The only reason I say overkill is that my good friend Oneinthepip has a 440 he used to run his SongTowers until he upgraded to HT2's and I beleive he thought there was more then enough power. The SongTowers are about 87-88db effiecient, so a big brute amp like the 550 will not be of benifit, unless upgrade is in the horizon. At The RMAF, we drove 2 SongTowers with the 30wpc Ultravalve to respectable levels in 2 channel. However, all that said, a 550 and a 3 channel 240 would not be easily pushed out the back door as it would handle all real load speaker combinations, albeit overkill for the presently considered speakers and now with a sub, will be a venerable bass zoo.

Wayner

[oneinthepipe]

The only reason I say overkill is that my good friend Oneinthepip has a 440 he used to run his SongTowers until he upgraded to HT2's and I beleive he thought there was more then enough power. The SongTowers are about 87-88db effiecient, so a big brute amp like the 550 will not be of benefit, unless upgrade is in the horizon.
Wayner

More than enough power is correct.  The HT2-TL are more efficient than the ST RT, and the Insight 440 drives them effortlessly.  As Frank told me when I ordered the 440, "You will never need a more powerful amplifier."  There is plenty of reserve power to handle the Insight preamp and DAC's tremendous dynamic range. 

[sfox7076]

Yes, the sub has the plate amp that Rythmik uses.  The link is below.  The sub is a monster and a great performer.  Jim made it with thicker MDF than their plans recommends, so it weighs 105+, but it sounds amazing.
http://www.rythmikaudio.com/D15SE.html

The reason I was discussing the Ultra 550 is because I can get a used one for $1200.  Thought it would sound good with the Anthem/STs and will likely step up again in the future (probably to HT2ls as my wife hates the look of the HT3 and the new HT4).  We will see if the used one works out.

Shawn

[oneinthepipe]

The used Ultra 550 is a bargain, assuming the amp is in good condition.  Frank indicated that he would offer a three year  warranty with the double-die upgrade.  Either way, it is a great amp at a great price. 

[oneinthepipe]

my wife hates the look of the HT3 and the new HT4.

IIRC, Jim made a rectangular-shaped HT3 for a customer, and he might also be able/willing to make a rectangular-shaped HT4.

[Art_Chicago]

More than enough power is correct.  The HT2-TL are more efficient than the ST RT, and the Insight 440 drives them effortlessly.   

well, just a note: it is 88 dB for ST (dome tweeter) vs. 87 dB for HT2-TL according to Jim's site. I would not think that ribbon tweeter in ST will decrease the sensitivity below 87 dB, but I could be wrong. 

[sfox7076]

Well, the Ultra 550 is on its way in a few days...  Woo hoo.

[oneinthepipe]

Well, the Ultra 550 is on its way in a few days...  Woo hoo.

Good catch on the Ultra.  That's a great amp.  At RMAF, an Ultra 550 drove the Salk HT4 effortlessly.

[sfox7076]

I know it is overkill, but what is the use in buying an Insight 240 if I can get the Ultra 550 for almost the same cost?     Anyway, we will see what it sounds like.  Once I get the Ultra, I will order a Insight 240/3 to complete the stack.  Though how I can get them both in my rack will be interesting. 

Shawn

[Art_Chicago]

I know it is overkill, but what is the use in buying an Insight 240 if I can get the Ultra 550 for almost the same cost?     Anyway, we will see what it sounds like.  Once I get the 240, I will order a Insight 240/3 to complete the stack.  Though how I can get them both in my rack will be interesting. 

Shawn

So you are getting Ultra or 240? It comes down to buying  a new amp with warranty vs used. Enjoy

[Big Red Machine]

my wife hates the look of the HT3 and the new HT4.

IIRC, Jim made a rectangular-shaped HT3 for a customer, and he might also be able/willing to make a rectangular-shaped HT4.

Maybe.  Most likely with the caveat that the performance will suffer due to edge diffraction and influence of the soundstage to the mid and tweet due to a cabinet surface acting like a reflector.  Can't imagine it would be drastically "inferior" though given the performance now.  I chided him a skosh about not having a grill hood which would square it up some, but now there is no flat surface left to attach it and that might mean a square edge on the woofer section using 15" drivers to set the grill on.

[sfox7076]

I meant the Ultra...  I fixed it above.

[martyo]

I meant the Ultra...  I fixed it above.

Nice pick-up. There was much talk about the wattage of the amps, I'll talk about the sound. I had the pleasure of using an Insight 440H in my system for a month while Frank was upgrading my 550 into a Double. The 440H was a great "sounding" amp, but the Ultra sounds better and the Double better still. Of course you pay for that. I'm also making the assumption that all the Insight amps share the same sonic signature.  That's my experience.   

[sfox7076]

How much air do I need to give the amps to breathe?  Two in the rack will seem to require a lot of open space... 

Shawn

[martyo]

The Ultra can use some breathing room.......

[gjs_cds]

How much air do I need to give the amps to breathe?  Two in the rack will seem to require a lot of open space... 

Shawn

My 440HC can definitely get quite warm to the touch, and I've got it in a well ventilated cabinet w/ about 6 inches of breathing room (both vertical and horizontal).  But w/ that said, I'm quite confident that the extruded heat sinks do their job most effectively. 

[sfox7076]

So the AVA Ultra 550 is in the rack and playing.  I left work early on Friday to wire it up.  Wow is all I can say.  I thought the SongTower RT sounded great before.  Now I know what I was missing.  The AVA Amp v. the ATI made Outlaw is night and day.  I started the evaluation with Damien Rice live at FingerPrints Warts and All.  It is a very well recorded live set he did at a record store in LA.  It is not the most complex music, but it is something I adore.  The immediate difference I heard was the depth in his voice.  There was more power to it than with the Outlaw.   I guess my way of describing it is that I didn't hear it as a point in a field, but a wave that emanated throughout.  That doesn't sound right, but maybe someone will get it beyond me.  Eventually, Lisa Hannigan, the woman that used to sing with him and is amazing in her own right, comes in on a song.  I suddenly noticed how much more separation was missing in the Outlaw that was coming through from the AVA amp.  I think that the AVA is much more musical, while the Outlaw was much more an in your face Amp.  It had all the power you could want, but it was missing the refinement that one wants/needs to enjoy the music.

The next song I put on was Acadian Driftwood by the Band.  I have a soft spot in my heart for this song, even with its inaccuracies, because my Mother's family is Acadian.  Anyway, the AVA once again opened up the music so that there was separation where the Outlaw had compressed.  I noticed things I had never heard before in the song.

I could go on for hours about how I put the amp through the paces and really could not find much in the way of a weakness in the sound. 

OK, to sum up what I would say verses the Outlaw:

The Outlaw was more in your face.  I don't really know how to describe that in a way other than to say that there was less separation and more compression, so it hit you harder in one place.  Again, as an analogy, the Outlaw was more like being poked.  Where the Outlaw poked you, the AVA envelopes the space around you.  I would call it a bit more laid back than the Outlaw.  This is not bad, just an observation.

The AVA is hands down more musical than the outlaw.  I could hear every instrument, every pluck of a string, etc.  It made me remember why I got into better audio in the first place.  In essence, this amp makes it a pleasure to listen to music on my HT/music system.  If I can only have one place to listen, and it has to double for my HT setup, this amp makes it worth it.   Now for an insight 240/3...  No reason to have a 7 x 200 Amp running 3 speakers...

[oneinthepipe]

Nice. What are you using for a pre-amp and a source?  Found the answer in the thread on the Salk forum.