Perception and Reality – the Greatest Enigma!

JLM · « **Reply #20 on:** 12 Jan 2004, 01:32 pm »

True science is not the expounding of dogma, but the logical search for truth. It does not blindly accept anything as fact, but goes about to prove what is real. Science therefore must admit to having a limit, as scientific mysteries still exist.

Yes, mankind has a need to explain the world. First we used superstitions, then religion, then science. We'd all like to have a single system of thought to cover everything.

Beyond our ability to know via science we must rely on other other systems. Leaving science requires a surrender, to admit our limits, and reliance on others. This goes against macho, independent thinking that is so American.

jkarhan1 · « **Reply #21 on:** 12 Jan 2004, 03:18 pm »

My appoligies. I origianally intended this post go here. Thats what I get for multitasking. And the beat goes on.......

Posted: Sun Jan 11, 2004 11:18 pm Post subject:

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I have to agree with a few other people this is probably one of the most well behaved discussions on religion. I like it. For the most part, people have been respectful of peoples individual opinions.
Some more thoughts that relate to various comments:

-God uses both the laws of physics/science. He set them into motion. And also steps out of those bounds when he chooses to. So, yes. Miracles and his interfacing with our lives are done both with in those laws and out side those laws.
-We can choose any framework/religion/moral code we want. However, if you presume a creator. Then the only framework/reality is Gods framework/reality. It is for us to find that framework we were created to work in.
-Faith and logic are not mutually exclusive. Faith does not require a complete lack of logic. Both do exist in parallel and together. Some may say they cannot. This is just an excuse not to strech the mind and look a little deeper.
Short list of people smarter than me who pulled it off:
Einstein-"science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind" and his statement that "God doesn't play dice with the universe"
Blaise Pascal- He was much affected when his niece was miraculously healed of a tumor. After he was nearly killed in a carriage accident, he was converted to a deep relationship with Jesus Christ.
Booker T. Washington.
Leonard Tolstoy. Diest.
That’s just the short list. A would call none of these men stupid nor make fun of them for their belief. Well.. I wouldnt make fun of someone for their beliefs or lack there of anyway

-A personal relationship with the creator of the universe is not a scam. I do believe and recognize some people and churches have made it into a scam.

-Yes some people use Religion to abdicate personal responsibility. That is a herasy on the level of people using God to manipulate and scam. God is not pleased and that was never the intent. Greed, consete, pride and the lust for power. And fortunately there is a final accountability at the end.

I do belive in a Creator. Why. Because Macro evolution is impossible. (I teach forensics and specialize in forensic DNA. The evidence in our genitic code is staggering. And the same for microcellular biology. If you sincerely want to know more I'll email references- If you want to argue about it. I will not. Ive found it usually comes down to my stack of references/books vs your stack of references/books.) It comes down to this. I can say I have a relationship with creator of the universe as tangible as you might have with a friend. It passed the reality/does it really work test in my life.
Joe

Marbles · « **Reply #22 on:** 12 Jan 2004, 03:23 pm »

"God is not pleased and that was never the intent"

Just curious how you know this?

MaxCast · « **Reply #23 on:** 12 Jan 2004, 10:51 pm »

We will never be able to prove there is a God. God is omnipotent and dosent need logic to be. Man is linear and logical and uses that thought process to explain all, know and achieve. Being omnipotent "knowing all" is beyond the realm of humans. We will never be able to know for certain there is a God.

To try to believe in God with logic will get you nowhere because the question of "why" can never be answered with mans logic. The Bible is illogical because we always get back to the question of "why." It must be accepted by faith. To a logical mind this seems like a "dirty little trick."

Will we ever understand time? Man is controlled by time yet we know not its origin nor its purpose. Where did everything come from

And where is it all going

We "know" we had to come from somewhere, but can not prove what where is. We all accept somewhere on "faith."

tom1356 · « **Reply #24 on:** 12 Jan 2004, 11:18 pm »

If there is a god I know he hates the Packers.

Neighborhood Troll · « **Reply #25 on:** 13 Jan 2004, 12:44 am »

Bears fan myself,

But im sure God likes the packers too.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #26 on:** 13 Jan 2004, 12:53 am »

He must have it in for the Vikings.

Marbles · « **Reply #27 on:** 13 Jan 2004, 01:00 am »

Quote from: Rob Babcock

He must have it in for the Vikings.

He doesn't much care for the Cubs either

Neighborhood Troll · « **Reply #28 on:** 13 Jan 2004, 01:22 am »

no kidding. they haven't won crap since ive been able to understand baseball. as far as i know, they only came close once.

jkarhan1 · « **Reply #29 on:** 13 Jan 2004, 06:44 am »

Not real fond of the Mariners of Seahawks either

jkarhan1 · « **Reply #30 on:** 13 Jan 2004, 06:46 am »

Not real fond of the Mariners of Seahawks either

MaxCast · « **Reply #31 on:** 13 Jan 2004, 11:42 am »

Quote from: tom1356

If there is a god I know he hates the Packers.

tull skull · « **Reply #32 on:** 13 Jan 2004, 06:57 pm »

L.A. Kings! Can there be a more cursed team in professional sports???