[cadobhuk]

Recently I've read that smaller 5" woofers have advantages over 6 or 7" counterparts,namely faster decay and more detailed midrange.Those would be important to me.They also have disatvantages,mostly weaker bass-how important is this if used with a sub?
I've read good things about these two drivers : Seas W15CH001 and ScanSpeak 15W/4531G.Would they work in a 2-way or an mtm arrangement in a bookshelf cabinet?

[jgb0194]

When I bounced driver ideas off Rick for a custom design which ultimately evolved into the line arrays using the Fountek NeoPro 5i ribbons, we covered the SS Revelator 15W versus 18W topic.

I had no experience with either one, but surmised that the 15W's midrange qualities would be superior. Rick said not so. I trust his ear. I also trusted his crossover design expertise to optimize power response in a system using 6.5 inch midbasses. Another consideration favoring the 18W in my application was the sealed array w/subs design. I feel strongly that subs are best given ONLY the bottom octave (30-60 Hz in my case). Sealed 5 inch midbasses won't roll off low enough to be used in my design.

Line arrays are a different animal than an mtm or 2 way. Multiple drivers mitigate decay time issues to a significant extent, contributing to the dynamic capability line arrays are known for. I elected to go balls out with the NeoPro 5is to allow Rick the ability to get the crossover point/slopes well within the sweet spot where the midbasses aren't beaming yet the ribbons aren't outputting any real energy near their low end limit where the nasty distortions arise.

I'm sure Rick will work with you to get the loudspeakers you want. A 3 way using the right woofers rather than subwoofers may allow a nice sealed mt or mtm cabinet on top - but I'll defer to Rick who is the expert here.

[Rick Craig]

Recently I've read that smaller 5" woofers have advantages over 6 or 7" counterparts,namely faster decay and more detailed midrange.Those would be important to me.They also have disatvantages,mostly weaker bass-how important is this if used with a sub?
I've read good things about these two drivers : Seas W15CH001 and ScanSpeak 15W/4531G.Would they work in a 2-way or an mtm arrangement in a bookshelf cabinet?

You really have to look at the system as a whole to determine what size woofer will perform best for you. If you have a subwoofer it will of course be a plus if your mains have a 5"; however, you'll need in most cases a higher crossover point than a 7" would. A 5" will usually (not always) give you more flexibility in choosing a tweeter.

With a MTM 5's are easier to implement and in most situations a better choice than a 7" because of the difference in driver spacing and required crossover points. With a MT you have to decide what tradeoffs you can live with and what virtues that you prefer. If the tweeter is a small ribbon or 3/4" dome that will rule out most 7" drivers.

Both drivers you listed are very good but are different in terms of how I would implement them.

[cadobhuk]

If you did an MTM with Seas W15CH001,how much would that cost?

[Rick Craig]

If you did an MTM with Seas W15CH001,how much would that cost?

What tweeter?

[cadobhuk]

Well,something that measures up to the woofers..The same fountek ribbon if it would match them well,or something else good if not.It looks like something out of my price range but who knows how much money will I have when the time comes to spring for some speakers,so I'm just satisfying my curiosity.

[Rick Craig]

Well,something that measures up to the woofers..The same fountek ribbon if it would match them well,or something else good if not.It looks like something out of my price range but who knows how much money will I have when the time comes to spring for some speakers,so I'm just satisfying my curiosity.

I did some tests with the Fountek in the Garnet MTM but the vertical listening window was too limited. The driver spacing with a 5" MTM dictates a crossover point that's too low for a small ribbon or 3/4" tweeter. The good news is that there are many good 1" domes that will perform well in a 5" MTM.

[cadobhuk]

You wouldnt offer it as a kit though,right?Only the popular designs go as kits?

[Rick Craig]

You wouldnt offer it as a kit though,right?Only the popular designs go as kits?

Any of our designs can be purchased in kit form.

[Val]

... you'll need in most cases a higher crossover point than a 7" would. A 5" will usually (not always) give you more flexibility in choosing a tweeter.

Just to continue the interesting discussion:

Rick, in a two-way design (or a Galena) wouldn't the new Fountek NeoPro5i ribbon nicely complement the 7" Revelator by allowing a lower crossover frequency (down to 1kHz, according to specs!), thus solving the theoretical advantages of a 5" at the top of its frequency range? Have you thought about this combination? Are there any disadvantages?

The famous and very expensive Arial 20T combines a similarly large rectangular ribbon (105mm) with a 7" midrange.

[Rick Craig]

... you'll need in most cases a higher crossover point than a 7" would. A 5" will usually (not always) give you more flexibility in choosing a tweeter.

Just to continue the interesting discussion:

Rick, in a two-way design (or a Galena) wouldn't the new Fountek NeoPro5i ribbon nicely complement the 7" Revelator by allowing a lower crossover frequency (down to 1kHz, according to specs!), thus solving the theoretical advantages of a 5" at the top of its frequency range? Have you thought about this combination? Are there any disadvantages?

The famous and very expensive Arial 20T combines a similarly large rectangular ribbon (105mm) with a 7" midrange.

You could do that but it creates a very narrow vertical window. I've heard the 20T's and noticed it right away.

[cadobhuk]

Sorry for being a newb,what is a "vertical window" exactly?I'm guessing its something that limits the listener's position to a certain area,but in which way exactly?

[Rick Craig]

Sorry for being a newb,what is a "vertical window" exactly?I'm guessing its something that limits the listener's position to a certain area,but in which way exactly?

It's the vertical dispersion. Because the Pro5i is a long ribbon it has less vertical coverage than a small ribbon or typical dome tweeter.

[cadobhuk]

So what does it mean,that the tweeters must be at the same height as my ears while listening?That wouldnt seem like a difficulty to me.

[Christof]

Not a bad thing if you like to listen with your head in a vise

[cadobhuk]

why? Did I not understand correctly that its about the height?If I seat in the same chair while listening with a well matched speaker stand to put the tweeter on my ear level,why head in a vise?What is the vise supposed to do?

[Val]

Cadobhuk is correct, in my opinion, when one listens critically (aren't we audiophiles supposed to do that?) to music, that is, sitting down in the best listening position. The only problem with a restricted vertical window is if you enjoy background music when standing up. A ribbon tweeter is much less restrictive than an electrostatic speaker regarding "head in a vise". I for one wouldn't mind the restriction when it comes together with the enhanced resolution of a ribbon tweeter reproducing most of the midrange as well.

[klh]

Here's my perspective: If you critically listen, you're going to have your system set up to minimize negative acoustic artifacts caused by the room. Moving your head in any direction a cm much less an inch skews the response. If one is that particular, having a monitor or tower that has a smaller sweet shouldn't really matter. Furthermore, if you want something for casual listening, go for something cheaper.

[JLM]

My 8 inch single driver speakers (without whizzer cone or super tweeter) "beam" above 4,000 Hz.  Width/height of soundstage is probably affected, but we're only talking about the top two octaves.  On the plus side it does help take out any room effects and I can aim them away slightly if the sound ever got "too hot".

As I understand (and I could be very wrong about this) the THX specification for home theater applications requires limited vertical dispersion to help eliminate floor and ceiling bounce (first reflections).

But seems to me that the real issue here is plannar versus dome/cone dispersion, not the how low the crossover frequency to the tweeter should be. 

[Rick Craig]

why? Did I not understand correctly that its about the height?If I seat in the same chair while listening with a well matched speaker stand to put the tweeter on my ear level,why head in a vise?What is the vise supposed to do?

If the ribbon is large you may notice some high frequency shift with slight upward/downward movement of your head. I'll note that I received comments on the Garnet at the RMAF that there was little difference between being seated and standing. With a long ribbon in a MTM that would not be possible.