[coolsat]

I recently bought the NuForce AVP 16 to replace my adcom GTP 600/GDD-1 combo. My HT setup is Vandersteen 1c's for front L/R, vcc-1 for center, V2W as sub and VSM's  for rear.

The problem now is I do not have the sub working for my 2 channel setup. The AVP 16 has a bypass mode that I use (it turns of all processing) so that i can get good 2 channel audio and sacd. But I get no sub assist from the AVP anymore. if I engage any of the AVP's DTS/Dolby modes the sub works but the music does not sound as good. I have a pair of line outs (L/R) on the AVP and I tried connecting one of the line outs to the LFE of my V2W sub. But I still cannot get a sub signal. I was told by Nuforce support that one cannot really connect the preouts from the AVP to a sub like v2w which does not have a crossover.

Should I get an external crossover because the V2W does not have one and has only a LFE input. How would I be able to get the sub to work with 2 channel audio?

any thoughts?

thanks,

Coolsat

[Bob Reynolds]

I would consider an NHT X2 crossover: http://nhthifi.com/2006/products/s/x2.html

Run the left and right preamp outs into the X2 (set to sum into a mono sub output), run the left and right high-pass outputs to your amp(s) and the sub output to your sub.

[coolsat]

Hi Bob,

thanks for the quick reply! I was really wondering what to do including trying to see if I could get a 2wq sub and get rid of my v2w. I'll give this a try and see how it goes. After having listened to 2 channel audio with a sub for years, this was driving me nuts.

Coolsat

[John Casler]

I would consider an NHT X2 crossover: http://nhthifi.com/2006/products/s/x2.html

Run the left and right preamp outs into the X2 (set to sum into a mono sub output), run the left and right high-pass outputs to your amp(s) and the sub output to your sub.

Bob's suggestion is a good one, and I have been using the NHT X-2 for some time.

Your other option might be using the analog outs of your DVD player and setting SACD to 2 channel.  Depending on your DVD player it will likely offer you bass management.

Then when listening to CD or SACD you set the AVP16 to 5.1 analog input, and it too will or should bypass all processing.

[coolsat]

John,

My sacd/DVDA player in the OPPO 970 HD and I do not use it for video. It has a video bypass mode that I use. I bought this player just to start experimenting with the SACD/DVDA world. the oppo is connected to the AVP 16 using the 5.1 analog cables. So I am going analog from my OPPO. 

My main redbook cd player is a Marantz 6000 OSE (modded). It is connected to the AVP's CD input and is what I want my sub to work for. I tried playing regular cd's thru the OPPO but it did not sound the same or fix this issue of sub singal. However, my oppo was set to play SACD's in the multichannel mode. I could try your suggestion to see if has any bearing on the bass issue.

My AVP 16 is always set to the bypass mode for both the 7.1 and CD inputs.

Thanks,

Coolsat

[coolsat]

Guys,
The only place I can see to find the NHT X2 xo is from audioadvisor. I might have to call a local Anderson's to see if I can get it. I want to be able to get this to work this weekend.

thanks,

Coolsat

[John Casler]

Guys,
The only place I can see to find the NHT X2 xo is from audioadvisor. I might have to call a local Anderson's to see if I can get it. I want to be able to get this to work this weekend.

thanks,

Coolsat

I have PM'd you.

[coolsat]

Bob,

I have a question regarding the connection!  Currently, I have the OPPO 970HD player connecting to the AVP 16 using the 5.1 analog inputs. I have the 5.1 analog outputs going to the amp and sub. In addition I have a coax outs from my Toshiba XA2 and comcast HD receiver connected.

So if I now connect using the NHT crossover and use the method you described, will I be connecting my .1 out from the AVP to the crossover. Because this is the only way I can get output from my XA2 while watching movies.

Thanks
Coolsat

[ted_b]

Yes, the second set of line outs (for your fronts) and the LFE (.1) output go to the X2 and are mixed and/or treated separately there.  That way when you play 2 channel the X2 handles the fronts/sub integration, and when you play movies/music through HT, the fronts are still augmented by the sub while the .1 plays as well (with a separate level adjust).

[Bob Reynolds]

Honestly, I was thinking that the X2 would be used for bass management for both 2-channel and multichannel. So the left and right of your 5.1 analog outpus of the AVP 16 connect to the X2. The high-pass outputs of the X2 go to your amp(s) and the LFE output of the X2 goes to your sub.

That should work fine for 2-channel.

The issue is what happens with multichannel. You'll tell the AVP that you have no sub and set the left and right speakers to "large" so that bass management within it will be disabled. The problem is the surround channels. In my connection scheme, you lose any bass in the surround channels. I don't know how much of an issue this is.

M&K (as did Outlaw), sadly now out of business, made multichannel bass management units (I own two of them)  which would solve your problem easily. I don't know of any one box BMC units on the market at present.

++++++

I don't think I follow ted_b's comment completely. I don't how the amp is connected in his confguration.

++++++

Looking at the X2 manual more closely it appears that the LFE input will sum with the low-pass filtered signal from the left and right inputs. So all you have to do is connect the LFE output from the AVP 16 to the X2, as well as, the other connections in my configuration. In multichannel, bass management for the surrounds will be handled in the AVP 16 (setting surrounds to "small", left & right to "large", sub present) and base management for the left and right will be handled by the X2. In 2-channel, base management will be handled by the X2.

I didn't originally realize just how flexible the X2 is. Pretty damn nice.

Is this clear as mud?

[coolsat]

Bob,

thanks for the reply! It is clear that I'll be ok for

1. 2 channel audio (X2 will do the bass)
2. mutilchannel( AVP will do the bass management); for movies etc

But there is still the issue of the OPPO 970HD that I have connected to the AVP using the 5.1 analog inputs; I listen to the sacds/dvda's bypassing the AVP' circuitry. Here the 5.1 is sent directly from the oppo; Will I still need to tweak the X2 because now the AVP is not doing anything

Coolsat

[ted_b]

No, but the Oppo is (through the AVP).  X2 still sees the same thing, except the Oppo is calling the shots, not the AVP. 

Net/net, the X2 is a crossover that will allow yuou to use ONE sub to manage both your front soundstage (2 channel, or fronts of 5.1) sub-bass needs, as well as blend in the dedicated LFE channel (coming from the AVP), whether that channel is being produced and managed by the AVP (movies) or the Oppo-thru-AVP (music).

[coolsat]

Ted,

Thanks for the explanation! It is clear now. X2 it is then.

Thanks,

Satish

[Bob Reynolds]

Please let us know how it works out.

[coolsat]

Ok, thanks to the wonderful replies and people on this forum I have a working 2 channel with sub. Thanks again for this!. I tried 2 different configs and was successful with one of them.

Config that WORKED

Connect front L/R inputs of AVP to X2. Connect X2's high pass outputs to the Front L/R of my amp; connect .1 from AVP to X2 and finally connect one of the sub out from X2 to the V2W; I have tested two channel audio, and SACD and both seem to work just fine. I still have to test 5.1 from movies

Config that did NOT WORK

Connect the spare line out (L/R) from the AVP to the x2; connect the x2's high pass to the  the front L/R of my amp; .1 from AVP to X2 and subout form x2 to sub. Here for some weird reason the signal strength to my front speakers was HALVED. I thought that the spare line out on the AVP were equal to the front L/R in terms of output but it seems not to be so. So I was getting nothing thru my sub when I did this.

I'll have to contact NuForce again and find out why this is the case; I thought one got a signal with the same strength thru those spare line level outputs as the front L/R preouts.

Thanks,

(happy) coolsat

[Bob Reynolds]

Glad to hear you have a configuration that works OK.

What would be the advantage of using the spare L/R outputs versus the main L/R outputs of the AVP?

[coolsat]

Bob,

I was told that the spare L/R could be use to drive a Subwoofer directly since they were equal in all respects the front L/R's. However, they did not work for me because

1. The issue I reported in my previous post about them for some reason being low in strength
2. the V2W has only an LFE input

However, a friend who has a B&W sub with L/R input and the AVP tried to connect the AVP' s spare L/R to drive the sub and had the same issue! He ended up getting a NHT X2 too to get his 2 channel with sub working thanks to this forum

But you are right, there is not advantage in my case to using the spare L/R. I was just wondering as to why these inputs were low in signal strength

thanks,

Coolsat

Glad to hear you have a configuration that works OK.

What would be the advantage of using the spare L/R outputs versus the main L/R outputs of the AVP?

[bmg1]

I want thank everyone on this thread for sharing their knowledge. Just by following this thread my problem got solved! I have B&W bookshelf (CDM1NTs), HTM7 and sub B&W ASW675. My processor is NuForce AVP16 too. I was having a similar issue - trying to use the sub with 2-channel audio (to help out my bookshelf fronts) and also for SACD/DVD-A/Movies-Dolby (5.1). I got laughed at some of my local dealers for attempting this! Your NHT X-2 solution is simple and elegant. Summing the LFE with the "low pass" extracted from the mains is really neat! I bought the X-2 and
X-2 also opens up the possibility of bi-amping...Got to earn some money now... Have a great day folks!
Thanks,
bmg1

[John Casler]

Yes, the X-2 is one of those incredible products that is back in the shadows.

I searched far and wide for a X-Over that could do what it does and nothing came up.

I finally contacted Phil Marchand about making one for me to offer my clients with HT/LFE input and he said he could.

Then, I uncovered the X-2.  It stood in the shadows behind the X-1 (for NHT speakers only) and was darn difficult to find info on as well as low on the production totem pole.

I have placed maybe 20 of these things, and each person finds them quite adequate performers.

They really shine when you use them with a "separate" preamp, for your two channel system.

Strangly enough after receiving mine, I actually divided my HT and 2 channel Audio system into TWO separate system in the same room, and the X-2 allos me to use my four subs in both systems in a very simple and elegant way.

It has a lot in the package.