[slow_down]

Mulling over whether to buy and mod an SB3 (analog mod), and have a quick question.  On Bolder's website they say that an analog modded SB3 sounds best when plugged directly into an amp.  Well, the amp I'm about to own only has one set of inputs, and I will have more than one source, so will have to use a preamp.  Will I be wasting my money if I use an analog-modded SB3 this way?

FYI, my system is (I mean will be soon) an Odyssey Ausio Khartago amp with Odyssey Audio Etesian passive preamp.

Thanks.

[mcgsxr]

I have played with a modded SB3 both ways, and for me, the preamp did not add anything.

There are many here who use the SB3 into a pre, so it is certainly not a waste - it likely comes down more to synergy, and how happy your amp is, with a 1v input etc.

Try it out!

[Wayne1]

As Mark mentions, the output of the modded SB is a MAX of 1.1 volts.

The actual output will vary depending on how "loud" the file was recorded. I have noticed a great deal of variation of levels depending on the age of the recording. The late 50's jazz is a lot lower level than today's loud "pop" recordings.

In some cases, it may be helpful to add an active gain stage after the modded SB. This is where the Burson Buffer comes in.

Quite a few preamps do color the sound in some way. The Burson Buffer does not. It also adds 6 db of gain.

For switching AND a small amount of gain, the BOLDER/Bent/Burson Buffer would be a great choice.
It will not be cheap and there won't be any production units until sometime in October 

A simple input selector switch is available from Mapletree Audio Design. The LR-1 would cost about $150.00.

I used a highly modded and custom built switcher, using the LR-1 case, at last years Rocky Mountain Audio Fest.

[spacedghost]

IMHO
Nothing in this hobby can be stupid if it sounds good to you. aa

I have the same Odyssey amps and currently use a pre (SAS 10A), and I really enjoy the sound.  I have tried many different configurations and this is the one that works best for me.  It can't hurt to try all possibilities(if you need additional inputs), plus it just gives you a good excuse to listen to music.

Shaun

[slow_down]

Thanks for the replies.

Could somebody humor me and give a brief "idiot's guide" to amps, volts and gain - or more specifically how they play into a passive preamp versus an active preamp?  Will an SB3 sound different plugged into a passive preamp versus an active preamp?  What about difference between a passive preamp and just the amp?

[Bigfish]

Slow-Down:

I had Wayne perform the analog mods to my S3 and also had him mod the Linear Elpac Power Supply.  I have the S3 connected to an Odyssey Candela Preamp and it sounds great but I have yet to try it connected directly to my Odyssey Mono SE Amps.  Currently, I have some new ICs on order and will try connecting the S3 direct to the amps after they arrive.  This will allow me to leave ICs connected to my HT receiver which I use as a preamp for the L & R channels for movie playback.  Since my amps sit on amp stands making a simple switch of ICs behind the amp should not be much of a problem.

One of Wayne's Ultimate Power Supplies is definitely on my wish list.  I can speak with experience that you will not be happy with an unmodified S3 connected directly to your preamp.  Some of the guys connect the digital out of the S3 to a DAC and then into the Preamps but the analog section of an unmodified S3 will not sound nearly as well as a decent CDP.  Trust me, I have been there and tried it.

Good luck on your decisions!  Wayne does great work!

Ken

[slow_down]

As far as stock SB3 goes, that will likely have to do, at least for a little while.  The Odyssey system broke my bank, and likely won't be able to afford the analog mod for another few months.  And this is my first "real" high end stereo, after years with cheap sub $400 home theater receivers and sub/sat speakers, so I suspect I'll be able to suffer through the stock SB3 for the first couple months before needing to upgrade.

Or maybe I just bite the bullet and mod it now

Quick OT question - I think I remember reading somewhere that I'd find a decent improvement just by buying a cheap $10 linear power supply from a radioshack or hardware store.  Worth doing?  Can someone point me to an online source for one?  Afraid that Bolder's is DEFINITELY out of my reach for awhile.

[Bigfish]

Slow-Down:

Try doing a search on the internet or on ebay for an Elpac WM220-1.  You should be able to find one for around $30.00 and when you are ready to mod the S3 you can also send it to Wayne.  He will work his magic on it for $125.00.  If you are willing to wait a few months I will be selling my modded Elpac as I do intend to purchase the Wayne's Ultimate Power Supply.

Good Luck,

Ken

[Wayne1]

A passive preamp is so called because it has no active parts. There are no transistors, ICs or tubes requiring any power.

Usually they are resistor or transformer based. The resistor based pre-amps cannot add any gain. That is they cannot make the source any louder than what comes from the output of the source. They are only for volume reduction. There are some transformer based designs that can add some gain. That is make the source a bit louder.

Most active pre-amps use the active circuits to add gain. That is to increase the input voltage by a certain amount.

The design of many is to use a volume control to lower the input voltage before the signal is sent to the active gain stage.

There are many designs available and different ways of do all of this. Some circuit designs do "color" the sound.

A problem with some passive designs is that they need to be used with very short cables and the cables can really change the sound of the system.

I used to be a big fan of tube pre-amps. They seemed to add a certain richness to the sound of most systems I heard with them. When I tried the modded SB direct into a power amp, I was amazed by the clarity and improvement in dynamics.

Each person's system is a bit different and each person's needs are also different.

I would suggest you try the SB stock into the gear you have ordered and see what you think.

There is a list of folks who have gotten their SB modded and offer to let people listen to them, at the top of the BOLDER forum. Perhaps there is someone in your area that will let you hear what the differences are between modded and stock.

There is a great deal of difference between power supplies. Even the various aftermarket industrial supplies sound different from each other. The best bang for the buck is the ELPAC WM-220 that Bigfish posted about. You can find them used on E-Bay for less then $40.00. The connector has to be changed to use with the SB3. I do offer mods to this unit that does make it sound quite a bit better than stock.

[slow_down]

Wayne, thank you very much for the helpful description!  I will try the SB3 stock first as I get used to the other components in my system, but am pretty sure I'll be giving Bolder my credit card number around winter or so.