[BrunoB]

I take that as an insult, seriously. When you come the next time we can run the 626, the 30's anything you want and we can compare them to the DIVA. There is no way in the world that they can even be compared on any level regardless of material. You heard the DIVA on a 45wpc amplifier since all my big amps and preamps where not here yet, there is no way in the world that you can make this comment. Besised, after listening to my DIVAS with "joke" equipment you came to the conclusion that it was the best syst ...

Florian,
 I have not said that my speakers are better than the Diva's.  I just wanted to say that I have heard better microdynamics, and only microdynamics. And not because of  better speakers. Just because of a different acoustic treatment. Sorry that I was not clear.


And yes,  your system is still the best I have heard ( loved the orchestral scale!). But when I say best, I don't mean best  on every area. This is why  I am looking forward to listen to the improvements you made, learn from them  and make suggestions.

Bruno

[Florian]

Florian,
 I have not said that my speakers are better than the Diva's.  I just wanted to say that I have heard better microdynamics, and only microdynamics. And not because of  better speakers. Just because of a different acoustic treatment. Sorry that I was not clear.


And yes,  your system is still the best I have heard ( loved the orchestral scale!). But when I say best, I don't mean best  on every area. This is why  I am looking forward to listen to the improvements you made, learn from them  and make suggestions.

Bruno

Well then its time you come back    Because now i have the equipment needed to run them now.

Cheers

[John Casler]

Well then its time you come back    Because now i have the equipment needed to run them now.

Cheers

If you two do get together again for a repeat, you should try the RM30s with the "Tall Boy" tweak if you want to get the maximum "microdynamics" from it.

It is pleasantly surprising, in that department.

Florian, you have to try it, with the Ampzillas and the speaker raised about 7-8"

[SWG255]

Don't use foam. It takes way too much of it to get decent absorption, even if you use the better stuff.

My wife is considering putting out a line of "designer traps" - acoustic absorptive panels with decorator designs and fabrics - after seeing some of the fun I get into when recommending treatments for client's rooms. I don't know whether this will take off or not, but making traps that can blend with the decor might solve a lot of people's problems. What do people here think - would making traps that  ...

I think this is a great idea and wonder why others haven't come up with it sooner. I think some of the 8th Nerve devices look OK, but i know the absolute ugliness of most acoustic treatment is a major reason i haven't considered trying it. True, there are good looking acoustic treatments available, but these are designed and marketed for controlling ambiient noise, such as that which occurs in offices. They are not what is required for an audio listening rroom.

So, have your wife bring it on!

[ekovalsky]

Hopefully BrunoB and Florian can hear the RM30 or 626R in the same room with comparable equipment.  Personally I have a hard time believing the Divas would lose out in any category, microdynamics included.  Having owned the Diva before, I am not sure there is any speaker (including my Alons) that better it when it is properly set up and driven with suitable equipment.  Particularly with the new, higher quality ribbons available from an Australian source and a crossover upgraded with current state of the art parts.

Driving Divas (which have sensitivity in the low 80's with the passive crossover in the mid-80's with the active crossover) with a 45watt amp is going to constipate them badly.  In my experience, 200watts per channel into 8 ohms with doubling into lower impedances is what is needed to make the Divas sing.  McCormack DNA-500 or Belles 350A Reference would probably be great choices.  I'm sure the bigger Sphinx amps (which I think are Florian's new favs) are a great match too.  Tubes will work too if you get a big VTL or Jadis or ASL Hurricane.

Not that it directly reflects microdynamics or other sonic attributes, but here is a real world measurement of the Divas at 4m listening distance.  



This is damn good!  Note the +/- 4.5dB in room throughout  the midrange and into the treble to 10khz.  Below 120-150hz of course room effects mask the measurements of the speaker itself.  And this room has a pretty big bass mode in the low 30hz range -- I'd take care of that with a TacT  Note that the Diva has usable bass output into the low-mid 20hz range which is very impressive for a panel speaker.  Most box speakers including the bigger VMPS models fall short of this.

I didn't make these measurements myself, and the non-matching L & R response curves suggest the mic was either a bit off center, the speakers were not quite symmetrically positioned, or the room itself is asymmetric.

Measurements of the ultimate or penultimate VMPS RM/X are available in my gallery, if you want to compair.  They were obtained at just under 4m with different equipment and in a different room.

Florian if you ever want to sell your Divas, I claim right of first refusal

[Florian]

Thanks Eric, the two lines represent two different positions of the speakers and they were very similar but i dont have that screenshot. I agree with you on every comment and was shocked when i read it from Bruno. Owning both the 626 and the RM30's and having had them in 4 different rooms, with all kinds of equipment i pretty much know where to ballpark them. They are indeed very nice speakers, but nowhere near the same ballpark as the DIVAS. The small drop off in the highs was because of the microphone used in this test. I will conduct the same test with the 30's and 626 too very soon, and we can do them again when Bruno comes on over.

-Flo

[KJ]

Availability begins when my cabinetmaker delivers.

Will VIP Woodworks be making them?

-KJ

[Brian Cheney]

After over 20 years making speaker cabinets, VIP Wood folded early this year due to competition from offshore.

[stieger]

Hi folks,

got back from Brian's today.  Got the 140 lb "large" woofer out and set it up. I had a question, called Brian, and at 9pm on a Friday, he answered the phone - he "must have known it was me..." (just kidding).

Anyway, awesome subwoofer!  I just wish the kids would have stayed at the neighbors a little longer instead of going to bed, I was having too much fun!  I was worried my wife wouldn't like it, but she came into the room and really liked it!  Although it's huge, fortunately it has the piano black finish, and it looks great, and the wife actually got down and really looked it over!

Anyway, I also listened to the RM30's - very nice.  To compare them to my MLogan's is pretty tough.  I can say without hesitation that the RM30's were "warmer" and had a very sweet sound.  I think the MLogan's are a little "dryer" sounding, but also so transparent, it reminded me why I liked the ML in the first place.  Doesn't sound like I'm going to get what I need for my ML, but if I can, they are gone...

Best,

Stieger

[KJ]

After over 20 years making speaker cabinets, VIP Wood folded early this year due to competition from offshore.

Bummer.  Not to sidetrack the thread, but who will be performing the woodworking for the RM30s now?

-KJ

[John Casler]

Hi folks,

got back from Brian's today.  Got the 140 lb "large" woofer out and set it up. I had a question, called Brian, and at 9pm on a Friday, he answered the phone - he "must have known it was me..." (just kidding).

Anyway, awesome subwoofer!  I just wish the kids would have stayed at the neighbors a little longer instead of going to bed, I was having too much fun!  I was worried my wife wouldn't like it, but she came into the room and really liked it!  Although it's huge, fortunately it has the pi ...

Welcome to the VMPS LARGER sub club.  Be prepared to experience, improved digestion, and cracks in your walls, as well as some of the most "musical and tuneful" bass available.

It can also lead to the dreaded disease "LARGERitis", which is similar to an addiction, where you may find a 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th LARGER somehow appearing in your listening room.

Don't worry since the results are like any other drug, Euphoria and Musical Stupor (when you get that permanent smile on your face when you're listening)  

[Brian Cheney]

We asked the folks at RAW in British Columbia, who have a good reputation, but they declined.  I would prefer a domestic source but there is always mls out of China.  Lead times are long, though.

[BrunoB]

The small drop off in the highs was because of the microphone used in this test. I will conduct the same test with the 30's and 626 too very soon, and we can do them again when Bruno comes on over.

For the next meeting, I will bring my measurement microphone, an ECM8000 with a flat frequency response from 15Hz to about 22 Khz.

Bruno

[Florian]

The small drop off in the highs was because of the microphone used in this test. I will conduct the same test with the 30's and 626 too very soon, and we can do them again when Bruno comes on over.

For the next meeting, I will bring my measurement microphone, an ECM8000 with a flat frequency response from 15Hz to about 22 Khz.

Bruno

Sure no problem.  

[rynopr]

I have an ML system and the only other audiophile I know has a VMPS system.  Overall, my equipment doesn't nearly compare to his in expense and quality.  Hopefully, he will chime in.  Also listening took place in two different settings.  Obviously, we have two very different systems.   Never the less, I think I can offer some input.

I have ML Aeon i's powered by a B&K 3220 3 channel amp, and a avr 507 s1 acting as the pre.  Analysis plus interconnects and Analysis plus Oval 12 cables connect them.
I'm using a sony dvp cx850d dvd changer to a EAD 7000 mkiii DAC.

He has pretty loaded RM40's w/ upgraded caps, etc...powered by an Empirical Audio modded Parasound HCA3500.  He has the Thor TA 3000 pre--I think mk i.  He has analysis plus speaker cables and can't remember interconnects, but they're great.  
He has a Rick Schultz EVS modded Pioneer 47ai w/ superclock 2.

In his system, detail is amazing with a very black background on his system.  His soundstage is extremely large.  I would say its height was approximately 3 feet higher than the speakers themselves--this really stood out to me.  I don't remember if it was wider than the speaker placement.  I just remember it being eerie how clearly you could see the placement of the band members/instruments.  There were very high highs and slam is out of sight.  Sibilance was non existent.  I can't remember which remasterd recording, or SACD it was, but there was one that you could here comments in the recording studio--I have never experienced this.  It was cool.  There was detail in music that I never knew was there.

The slam factor on my ML's is almost non existent.  I did discover, if I used one of my 3 eq settings set to loud then I do get some.  I would say with the little bass that I do get it is on the tighter side compared to the RM's.  I felt that on the ML's the transition in the mids and highs is seemless, but my speakers do not go as high as the RM's.  I could notice it more on the RM's.  By no means, is it great.  It just seemed noticeable to me like the tighter bass.  I think my soundstage is more laid back, and you are definitely up closer with his, which I preferred.  My soundstage is small and you get much more detail of notes with his.  My DAC and amp makes the sound smoother and on the warm side, I feel.  I am definitely lacking detail especially at low volume levels.

We once hooked up his Pio to my AVR.  It greatly improved my mid's and high's.  I still don't think I was getting as much detail that I heard in his system.  However, I don't think I heard the same piece of music on mine that we played on his.  Maybe I did, but was not familiar enough with the recording at that point--mistake.

I hope he comments.  He has much more experience and knowledge than I do.  He might even scoff at my observations, but this is what I believe I heard.

[James Romeyn]

Well then you need to hear some panels wich are from the new ages
So far my visitors where talking about the hair standing up their neck when
we got some dynamic explosions from orchestras in here  

The pre-CDWG RM30 is not from the stone age, but I believe everyone who has added the CDWG agrees the CDWG blows away the the non-equipped model.

Just thought you'd like to know about the latest improvements.

[James Romeyn]

I've heard many of the ML's over the past several years in good setups, models available up to circa Y2k.    

I think the MLS have a lot of good qualities.  OTOH, I agree with a non-VMPS high-end dealer with about 30+ years experience as a dealer & in manufacturing.  He said the current RM30-CDWG (THE Show pair had Auricaps & 6.5" MW's) w/ Larger sub is unbeaten up to $15k.  I don't know what ML has now at $15k.

It is OK to match the above VMPS model with moderate quality components, but it deserves the best available (do not read most expensive).

I liked the RM2 ferrites more than the $10k ML available several years ago.  I heard the ML in a room with top McIntosh tube monos & about $20k worth of room treatments (the big room at Sonoma SoundMasters at their last address on 4th St in Santa Rosa).  That was an absolutely killer, great-sized room.  It was a reveleation to go home & hear the same 9th Symphony on way lesser gear & enjoy it more.  Dynamics?  I could not disagree more w/ Florian.

I'd enjoy an A-B of the current stock RM2-CDWG vs. any ML up to at least $7-10k.  I'd bet on the RM2.

[James Romeyn]

Well then its time you come back    Because now i have the equipment needed to run them now.

Cheers

If you two do get together again for a repeat, you should try the RM30s with the "Tall Boy" tweak if you want to get the maximum "microdynamics" from it.

Florian, you have to try it, with the Ampzillas and the speaker raised about 7-8"

IMO the reason John likes the sound with the 30s raised several inches is the same reason I liked my 40s with the woofers reversed.

In the range below 260 Hz (bass-mid xo), there is floor bounce from the 6.5s that is ameliorated by raising the speaker up off the offending boundary (the floor).  Inverting the 40s woofers (midbass to ceiling) works because the distance from the top woofer to the ceiling is greateer than from the bottom woofer to the floor.  The ceiling bounce is less than the floor bounce.  The midbass driver does not belong there.  Carpeting helps but doesn't absorb down low.

261 Hz is middle C.  That's a pretty high note for the VMPS cone to START its rolloff.  

My 2c.