[john.cardell]

I just finished the upgrade on my Klipsch RP-8000f right speaker and noticed it is about 7.0 decibels less efficient than the original. Anybody else notice this? The cymbals that were missing on the original build are now back. The Cymbals on the Jazz at the Pawnshop Lighthouse track I can hear again. Seems like before the upgrade the mid-range was washing them out. Anyway just seeing if anybody else is noticing a drop in efficiency.

[Hobbsmeerkat]

If you look at the before/after response the RP 8000F does lose about 3-5dB of effeciency especially in the tweeters range. But its a much more balanced response overall, averaging about 91dB vs an average of 95dB.

[john.cardell]

It does sound not so in your face anymore. Plus the cymbals are clearer. I'll never biwire or biamp again. Time for the left speaker next weekend.

[Hobbsmeerkat]

Once you're done with the 2nd tower you'll really be off to the races!
Plus they will only sound better as you put more time onto them. The sonicaps need about 200 hours to really open up and sound their best.

[john.cardell]

Hopefully the second crossover doesn't looked as hacked up as the first one. But everything is in order.

[RDavidson]

I'll never biwire or biamp again.

Huh? Neither of these things are detrimental. Biwiring is perhaps controversial and YMMV. We'll leave that at that. But biamping a speaker is never a "bad" thing that I've ever seen unless one has mismatched amps/gain. Anyway, neither biamping nor biwiring negate the crossover improvements you've implemented, so your comment is a little confusing.

[john.cardell]

Yes it is (that is my statement about biwiring). To clarify I won't biwire because the cost to performance ratio just isn't worth it. I have the Morrow audio M4 speaker cable in both regular and biwire runs. The biwire was almost twice the price. What difference does it make if the signal is split at the amp or speaker terminal?

What does YMMV mean?

[Hobbsmeerkat]

Yes it is (that is my statement about biwiring). To clarify I won't biwire because the cost to performance ratio just isn't worth it. I have the Morrow audio M4 speaker cable in both regular and biwire runs. The biwire was almost twice the price. What difference does it make if the signal is split at the amp or speaker terminal?

What does YMMV mean?

YMMV = Your Milage May Vary

[RDavidson]

Yes it is (that is my statement about biwiring). To clarify I won't biwire because the cost to performance ratio just isn't worth it. I have the Morrow audio M4 speaker cable in both regular and biwire runs. The biwire was almost twice the price. What difference does it make if the signal is split at the amp or speaker terminal?

What does YMMV mean?

Ah OK. Yeah, biwiring in your case may particularly be not good use of funds. However, it may be fun to experiment biwiring your speakers with some generic copper wire sometime down the road, just to see what happens. You're obviously not averse to experimenting, tweaking, and learning things for yourself.

Something else to try, and I've had great success with this with single wiring (not biwiring) speakers similar to yours, is to use the top binding post for the positive connection and the bottom binding post for the negative. I know it seems weird that this can change the sound, but it definitely does. If you consider the crossover network and where in the chain you're inserting the signal into that chain, it can be quite an ear opening change. What's great is that it costs you nothing but a little time to give it a try.

[NoahH]

Something else to try, and I've had great success with this with single wiring (not biwiring) speakers similar to yours, is to use the top binding post for the positive connection and the bottom binding post for the negative. I know it seems weird that this can change the sound, but it definitely does. If you consider the crossover network and where in the chain you're inserting the signal into that chain, it can be quite an ear opening change. What's great is that it costs you nothing but a little time to give it a try.

That just means that the signal for each is going through the jumper between the terminals. The crossovers behind the terminals are electrically separate circuits there are dual binding posts - the jumpers are all that connects them. So you are getting one leg of jumper for each of the circuits in what you described.

Not disagreeing that you can hear a a difference from this, but it adds the detail that playing with jumpers can alter it even further.

[john.cardell]

Just finished the left speaker so now complete. Good news is the sparkle from the cymbals are back but the bad news is the right speaker plays louder. With my preamp I had to boost the left speaker 2.5dbs. I checked all wiring for any phase errors (positive negative) switched somewhere but found none. + connected to tweeter - correctly.

[chips666]

Could be a resistor value problem

If i remember right, sensivity goes down a few db after modification
That would explain unbalance

Nice job good luck

Enjoy...

[Hobbsmeerkat]

Are both speakers using the same red/green wiring?
And what gauge is it?

The red/white wire provide woth the kit is 16 gauge solid core.

If the red/green wire is a smaller gauge, that could explain the volume imbalance.

[john.cardell]

@chips666

The right speaker was already done and did notice a drop in the right speaker before the left was completed.

@Hobbsmeerkat

Thanks for the reply but the AWG is actually 14. The specs are also 99.99% CU.

So here is what happened with the imbalance. I have the Apple TV box hooked directly up to the receiver and I listened to that directly. The right speaker was definitely louder. So the chain is as follows:

Apple TV >> Marantz AV7703 >> Herron Audio M150 Amps.

Since apple music isn't on my TV (I have a Roku TV) I watched Apple plus through the Apple box. That also favored the right channel. Yes I never listened yet to the system any other way believe it or not. So I watched the Apple plus app on the TV and the sound was balanced. I'm thinking if the HDMI cable went bad. Before I did that I removed it from the receiver and hooked it up to the TV to go through the ARC back to the receiver. Low and behold the sound was balanced again. So something got messed up going straight through the receiver. I also noticed when I listened to the same Lighthouse song (Jazz at the Pawnshop) it was balanced through the Spotify app on the TV. Since Apple music went lossless it makes Spotify sound so bad. Can't listen to it anymore.

When I get home tonight I'm going to do a factory reset of the receiver. Plus I have a Morrow Audio HDMI cable I will use and see if that will balance the sound.

I noticed a slight drop-off in quality going through the TV but minute. May be mental.

Anyway will let you know tonight before going to bed if the reset fixed the receiver. I sure hope so. But I'm happy knowing I can always listen going through the TV.

[john.cardell]

I found the source of the imbalance. It was the input on the AV7703 the apple tv device was plugged in to. I noticed when I listened to a cd through my bluray player it was balanced. So I switched inputs and the imbalance was gone for the apple tv but became present for the bluray player. So I'm not using that input and everything is balanced.

As far as sound quality goes the cymbals have a nice flat sparkle. The midrange even though only using the one driver now sounds just as open and clean as it did before without being over bearing. That audible dip I heard which matched Danny's measurements seems to be gone. I can't believe what an injustice Klipsch is doing to their own speakers by not putting in a proper crossover.

I know people out there said maybe Klipsch wanted it that way which makes no sense because all music is different. Another comment on his video for the Klipsch 8000F was how many people never noticed anything until they watched the video. Well in my case that is definitely not true and it was reversed.

When listening to Lighthouse on the Jazz at the Pawnshop album (digitally streamed with apple music over apple tv) is when I noticed the cymbals had lost their sparkle. The rest of the frequency range was fine to my ears. That's when I did a google and bing search and put in Klipsch 8000f speakers seem to have a dip around the cymbals upper midrange frequency range and didn't find anything. So on a whim I put that search in youtube hoping somebody made a video. Low and behold the GR-Research video was the first one to pop up.

Everything he said was true. That's what I heard. Good thing I found the video because I was ready to purchase these super tweeters for $800 off of Amazon. But then I realized that wouldn't be in the frequency range I'm missing.

This upgrade showed me that he is not making this stuff up to make a buck. He is actually creating true fixes and upgrades that he and we benefit from. Now I'm completely satisfied with these speakers and am looking for a replacement pair no more.

[Danny Richie]

This upgrade showed me that he is not making this stuff up to make a buck. He is actually creating true fixes and upgrades that he and we benefit from. Now I'm completely satisfied with these speakers and am looking for a replacement pair no more.

You are correct, and thank you.