4bsst2 clipping with Maggie 1.7

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a.wayne

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Re: 4bsst2 clipping with Maggie 1.7
« Reply #60 on: 31 Oct 2015, 07:15 pm »

Wow, really? That's pretty low. I wonder if that is an optimistic number considering the low SPLs nocrapman is getting with his 300 watt amp.

Yes , thats as measured by Stereophile for a 3.6R....

a.wayne

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Re: 4bsst2 clipping with Maggie 1.7
« Reply #61 on: 31 Oct 2015, 07:20 pm »
Well, always a matter of tradeoffs. Maggies are bargains as speakers go but you do need a bigger amp. The price/performance ratio is good enough so that this usually makes sense. (Magnepan could increase the efficiency by using neodynium magnets, but the magnets would cost more than a bigger amp does.)

That being said, I'm experimenting with a Crown 2500 that cost me all of $300 and it sounds great on my IVA's. Does it sound as good as the A21? No, but it's good enough so that if I didn't have the A21, I'd be delighted to live with it.

Perhaps more to the point, few audiophiles listen at levels that require this kind of amplifier power. A nightclub hits 120 dB, the OSHA limit, acoustical jazz can hit 127 on the peaks, acoustical classical can hit 122, but those are all outlying figures and not really suited to everyday listening to compressed recordings (as they almost all are) at home, and most consumer speakers can't even hit those levels without bursting into flame. When some guys on the Audio Asylum posted peak SPL readings they were *much* lower, even if you add on 10 dB since the meters don't read peaks.

I also think though that those with smaller Maggies should consider upgrading to a larger model before getting a huge or super-costly amp. There will be a bigger improvement in sound and typically the smaller Maggies start to sound strained before the amp runs out of steam. I think I'd want 3.7's at least before I considered something like a Pass or Magtech. Also, with the small models, a sub will likely give you more of an improvement in maximum SPL than a big amp will.

Double up the speakers Sq area , you half the distortion and pickup 3db ...... :thumb:

TJ-Sully

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Re: 4bsst2 clipping with Maggie 1.7
« Reply #62 on: 2 Nov 2015, 12:46 am »
hey folks, nice back n forth on the Maggie / Bryston delimna.
I'm running the 4BSST2, feeding pair of Bryston Mini T's. 
tons of dynamics and bottom end.
i used to run Thiel's and loved the precision and transparency. missing it now, and thinking of trading speakers to either the B&W 804D2's or the new Spendor D7. 
any thoughts on these fellas?

TJ

Phil A

Re: 4bsst2 clipping with Maggie 1.7
« Reply #63 on: 2 Nov 2015, 01:02 am »
hey folks, nice back n forth on the Maggie / Bryston delimna.
I'm running the 4BSST2, feeding pair of Bryston Mini T's. 
tons of dynamics and bottom end.
i used to run Thiel's and loved the precision and transparency. missing it now, and thinking of trading speakers to either the B&W 804D2's or the new Spendor D7. 
any thoughts on these fellas?

TJ

Budget? - Look at Salk or Philharmonic Audio as a couple of suggestions.  Odyssey Audio has nice new speakers too.

TJ-Sully

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Re: 4bsst2 clipping with Maggie 1.7
« Reply #64 on: 2 Nov 2015, 02:36 am »
hi Phil. the budget is $6-8K range. the Salks look interesting, but i have no idea how i could ever listen to them. I live in a remote area with access in the city (Vancouver  BC) every 3 or 4 months.  the Spendor D7's look pretty amazing with excellent reviews. have you heard them?

Phil A

Re: 4bsst2 clipping with Maggie 1.7
« Reply #65 on: 2 Nov 2015, 03:09 am »
hi Phil. the budget is $6-8K range. the Salks look interesting, but i have no idea how i could ever listen to them. I live in a remote area with access in the city (Vancouver  BC) every 3 or 4 months.  the Spendor D7's look pretty amazing with excellent reviews. have you heard them?
Not heard them - try posting in Salk circle to see if an owner in Vancouver might give you an audition - worth it

jsm71

Re: 4bsst2 clipping with Maggie 1.7
« Reply #66 on: 2 Nov 2015, 01:34 pm »
I'm late to this thread, but I'll throw in my own history with 1.7s.  I started with an older McIntosh amp that put out about 300/ch across all impedances.  While I had no clipping light I was getting awful artifacts when turning the sound up to significant levels, but I believe I was still well under 100 dB.  I'm certain the Mac amp was clipping and the protection circuit when kicking it produced the sounds I was hearing.

After some back and forth with Roger Sanders I bought the Magtech and sold off my McIntosh gear.  I truly believe the Magtech and Maggies were made for each other.   I was using a Cary tube preamp with the Sanders.  Nice combo.  Never heard any bad sounds again.

I've since sold both the Maggies and the Magtech, to different buyers, but that combo seemed perfectly mated.  Amp and speaker matching is worth the effort to get it right.


TJ-Sully

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Re: 4bsst2 clipping with Maggie 1.7
« Reply #67 on: 3 Nov 2015, 05:16 am »
hey phil. thanks for the tip. i've been reading about Salk speakers and the Exotica 3 look stunningly beautiful. i can just imagine how they sound...down to 20 Hz.  man o man.   Jimmy Salk has a good thing going. One day my friend.

Sully.

nocrapman

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Re: 4bsst2 clipping with Maggie 1.7
« Reply #68 on: 6 Nov 2015, 01:50 am »
This has been asked a couple of times :
How big is the room?
What's your listening distance?


Normally I listen at 12ft. In this case I was more active and hovering in the 15-16ft zone.
My room is a large space with a 350ft2 room opening into a 1000 sq ft area from on side (basement rec room).
The room is acoustically treated.
There were 2 Rhythmic subs in play as well. I took my measurements with the subs off though.

OzarkTom

Re: 4bsst2 clipping with Maggie 1.7
« Reply #69 on: 6 Nov 2015, 01:56 am »
Normally I listen at 12ft. In this case I was more active and hovering in the 15-16ft zone.
My room is a large space with a 350ft2 room opening into a 1000 sq ft area from on side (basement rec room).
The room is acoustically treated.
There were 2 Rhythmic subs in play as well. I took my measurements with the subs off though.

Have you tried the Maggies upstairs? Basements are notorious to suck out dynamics especially with room treatments.

nocrapman

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Re: 4bsst2 clipping with Maggie 1.7
« Reply #70 on: 6 Nov 2015, 01:59 am »
2 observations/updates:

Changed the system around a bit.

1. Swapped the DAC from a Audiogd NFB3 to NAD M51 from another system and went with balanced all the way.

Result: No more clipping at the same levels. Went a little higher but got uncomfortable.
Either the NAD or the balanced did something - likely the NAD... not sure.


2. Tried a pair of Emotiva XPA-1L monos - in class AB.
Sounded beautiful from the get go.... and they are just breaking in tonight.
Very impressed.
Have not cranked them up or tried class A yet. Very exciting.....


Thanks for all your input and valuable experiences!

cityjim

Re: 4bsst2 clipping with Maggie 1.7
« Reply #71 on: 17 Dec 2015, 08:37 am »
 First thing I would look at is that famous Maggie input panel. The one with the Bi wire/fuse holder/tweeter attenuator. I was getting blue sparks on my 20 series. Resembled an arc welder. Poor connections all over the place. Those junk input terminals.......  Completely bypass this and see what you get far as clipping goes. Silver solder around the fuse holder and also direct wire your speakers.  You can reinstall that input plate if you wish to sell. Will remove a huge layer of grunge to the sound.

 Funny not one person thought to look at the above paragraph. Oh lets get some 1k watt amps to solve the issue  :roll:. First of all, if you need 100db+ peaks then you need different speakers. Try some JBL concert stacks in your home. Maggies are not made to "impress your friends" if you know what I mean.



 Can't find any recommended input power levels on the baby 1.7's. The 1.6's were rated at "normal power" of 100 watts per into 8 Ohms. Manual says 250 max into 8 Ohms. My guess is people that require over 300 watts have some physical limitation in their system (Maggie input panel).   

 And add some tubes to the system while you are at it.

cityjim

josh358

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Re: 4bsst2 clipping with Maggie 1.7
« Reply #72 on: 17 Dec 2015, 01:52 pm »
"First of all, if you need 100db+ peaks then you need different speakers."

That depends on the Maggie. The big ones play pretty loud, the small ones don't. Forex, I measured my IVA's at over 110 dB the other day. At the opposite extreme, my little MMG's got uncomfortable when the SPL meter got into the 90's (100 dB peaks).

(Note that an SPL meter doesn't measure peaks, even on the "fast" setting. With acoustical music, add 10 dB to the meter reading to obtain a nominal peak value. This causes endless confusion.)