[nocrapman]

Read about the stereo Magtech amp. It is designed FOR planars and electrostats which present a somewhat unique challenge for amplifiers. The stereo amp has about double the power of the 4B. From Sanders

"Magnetic speakers differ from electrostatic speakers in one fundamental way --

Unlike other amplifiers, the distortion in the Magtech amplifier is virtually unchanged regardless of power level.  The bias is stable regardless of load."

Thanks for the pointers RD!
I am looking at the Sanders closely. The price for a new is daunting and I dont usually see on the used market.

There used to be another manufacturer who made similar amps but at a lower price point..... I cant remember the name, maybe they went out of business?

[nocrapman]

If you're talking about rock concert levels, have you considered large tube amplifiers?

I have considered tube amps but am scared to even ask for suggestions at what beasts I need to run the Maggies and what the price point will be. I wont have to worry about heating the basement for sure!!

I do have a pair of Emotiva XPA- 1Ls coming in on Monday (meant for my quarternary system in the "torture chamber").  I will report back on how the 1.7s behave with Class A. Hopefull I wont damage them in this process of hit and trial.

[nocrapman]

I find it interesting that your Bryston clipped.  I have a pair of Magnepan 1.6's and have run them with a Parasound A21 and now a Pass X250 amp.  I have turned the volume up with both amps to see how they fair and they handled the Maggies with ease.

Might depend on the material being played and how dynamic the sequence is. They only clipped on certain parts of a song.
I will test things with a SPL meter tonight and see what numbers I am hitting at clipping.

[geowak]

Funny you should bring up this topic. I have a pair of MMGs, smaller than the 1.7.s no doubt. I have a tube amp from a reputable company which has three large transformers producing what I felt was enough current to drive the MMGs. After a couple years, the amp failed. The suspect was the transformers. At this point, I agree that they are demanding on amplifiers. Now I use a Parasound A21, but I think I could use something even beefier with current.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Depends on  recorded material , listening distance and SPL ,  BTW how do you know the A21 or the X250 is not clipping, the Pass is a strong amp and 4 ohm is nothing the A21, current limits below 4 ohm and will go into protect if driven hard below 4 ohm, it will not swing current like the Pass......

I know what clipping sounds like and neither the Pass or A21 clipped as far as I can tell.  Interestingly, if you take a look at the spec's for the A21 and X250, the A21 has much better specs in most instances (slew rate, dampening, peak current and distortion).  But the Pass is clearly a more dynamic and much better sounding amp and is able to deliver the current and power better.  I was astounded at how much better the Pass is compared to the A21 which I gave to my son.

[a.wayne]

Agree,  I had an A21, it's a weak amplifier by comparison to other big amps like the  Pass, It's really an 8 ohm amp , this is where its at it's best,   on a 3,6 it was easily beaten by the Magteh, the A21 is straddled with too much protection stuff.





Regards

[geowak]

Curiosity? What are the price points on the Magtech, Pass and A21?

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Curiosity? What are the price points on the Magtech, Pass and A21?

The A21 is about $2200, the Pass X250 cost is bit over $6K about 10 years ago, I paid $3200 for a used one.  The new version is over $8K.  I am not sure about the Magtech.

I can tell you that the AVA 400R and 600R amps drive the 1.6's. 1.7's and 3.7's with ease and they are way better than the A21.

[nocrapman]

Magtech is 5500
and the A21 is more like 2500 now

[nocrapman]

I can tell you that the AVA 400R and 600R amps drive the 1.6's. 1.7's and 3.7's with ease and they are way better than the A21.

Is this from personal experience?
Have you cranked them up to see how they work at more demanding levels...  very curious...

[guest61169]

I used the cheapie Crown XLS 2500 with my 1.7s, 775 wpc into 4 ohms.  Of course you could use a pair bridged at 2400 wpc into 4 ohms.   Dirt cheap right now at Amazon.

Another alternative would be to get some JBLs or EVs and switch to them when you want to rock out at high volumes.  Careful with those ears.  We only get one set. 

[RDavidson]

Thanks for the pointers RD!
I am looking at the Sanders closely. The price for a new is daunting and I dont usually see on the used market.

There used to be another manufacturer who made similar amps but at a lower price point..... I cant remember the name, maybe they went out of business?

I think you may be thinking of Innersound. I believe, but don't quote me on this, that Innersound either used Sanders technology or were a direct spin-off of the Sanders line, designed for domestic applications where the big Sanders speakers just wouldn't fit.

No, Magtechs don't show up used very often. People who have them, seem to love them.

[a.wayne]

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=magtech+ampl%3Bifier&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.H0.Xmagtech+amplifier.TRS0&_nkw=magtech+amplifier&_sacat=0

[Quiet Earth]

I was not playing Vinyl; just streaming from the Squeezebox duet.

They only clipped on certain parts of a song.
I will test things with a SPL meter tonight and see what numbers I am hitting at clipping.

It would be interesting to see if the same part of that song clips at the same SPL using a different source component. (Like a CD player.)

It will also be interesting to see how loud in general you are playing at the onset of clipping, and what the average peak is when you feel like it is really loud. (Everyone is different.)

[Minn Mark]

Try:


www.avahifi.com

I'm Using one of their SS amps (~300W/4 ohms) for Maggie 3.6R with no clipping as loud as I want to play them.

IMO, Magnaplanars don't require megawatts to sound best. Placement and room treatments also figure in.

Having said that, you may contact Frank @ AVA and ask about the 1KW mono blocks he's prototyping...

[SteveFord]

Don't be afraid - you want 250W on each speaker. 
Older stuff isn't outrageously expensive if you shop around and luck into something.
Retubing isn't cheap but how often do you have to do that?  You'll get a different presentation than you will with SS gear, too.

[nocrapman]

It will also be interesting to see how loud in general you are playing at the onset of clipping, and what the average peak is when you feel like it is really loud. (Everyone is different.)

I did some rough measurements with my old radioshack SPL meter.
Measured at 15feet from speakers.
No clipping under 90db. starts to clip right over 90.

[werd]

Hi folks,
I have a Bryston BP26-4BSST2 setup as balanced with a gain of 23db powering a Magnepan 1.7.

I was listening to Eagles - Hell freezes over - Hotel California and when I cranked it up to unusually loud levels (LOML was out), it started clipping - especially at every drum-bass hit. The sound was breaking and the led changing red and blinking. Decreasing volume to comfortable levels resolved it.

I am dismayed as I thought the 4B was ample power with 500W at 4ohms that the 1.7 poses.

Is this expected?
Are these speakers underpowered?
Is my amp behaving out of the norm?

Do I need to change amps? I was planning to get an amp for a different system, but I might have to deal with this first and relegate the 4bsst2 to my other system.
I cross posted in the Bryston circle as well for feedback.

Thanks

Are you using balanced or rca?  Also what are you plugging the 4B into?  This is not a flimsy amp to say the least.  If you are using RCA move the gain to the 29 dB on the 4B. What you don't want is thermal compression, occasional clipping without thermal compression is a not a big deal if it sounds undistorted.  Also lots of space for air since this amp uses convection to cool.  So don't rack it with no space for air.  That will over heat the amp.

[Quiet Earth]

I did some rough measurements with my old radioshack SPL meter.
Measured at 15feet from speakers.
No clipping under 90db. starts to clip right over 90.

90 Huh? C weighted peaks? (I always use the peak hold button on the fast setting. Although I think the slow setting gives you a better average loudness reading.)

90dB seems kind of low for having that many watts on tap. Maybe your room is really big? Maybe the sensitivity of your speakers is overestimated and they are more like 80dB efficient. Maybe the speakers are compressing a little bit and changing the load impedance to the amp? I don't know that much about Magnepans and how they behave with a lot of watts feeding them.

FWIW, I'm about 10 feet away from my speakers and I can easily get 95dB undistorted peaks with an 8 watt amp. I would say that power is definitely relative to the sensitivity of the speaker and the size of the room. Maybe you need a different speaker for rocking out.

Not that it matters but my normal listening is closer to 80-85. I consider 95 to be very loud for long term listening. I hope you can work this out nocrapman. Maybe you really do need more than 500 watts. Wow!

[NIGHTFALL1970]

I can tell you that the AVA 400R and 600R amps drive the 1.6's. 1.7's and 3.7's with ease and they are way better than the A21.

I use an AVA 400R with my 1.7s and have cranked them a few times with no problem.  I am shocked that your Bryston was clipping, that amp is no slouch.  I wonder if your amp could have something wrong with it.  Bryston have fantastic customer service.  You should send it in for a checkup before you dump it.