[MGbert]

MGbert,

It only came with the Quick Start Guide so I've been using the online pdf manual.

The pages seem to be a little bit off from yours. For example the I'm using the ECM8000 mic set at -37 on page 14 (3.11.1), the Range is on page 13 (3.8.1). I don't like Behringers manuals (DEQ or the DCX). I just skim through them then play around with the buttons 'till I figure it out, which fortunately didn't take long. Not sure if I understand what you're referring to regarding Range, though I did figure out how to erase all my presets which is nice.

Regards,
Jon

Funny, I got the manual but not the quick-start guide!

But I was using an online pdf of version 1.1 of the manual, too.  The I/O is Section 3.6, which if you set to pink noise you then go to RTA (section 3.8 ) and hit the PAGE button on the DEQ to get to page 2 of it's display screen.  There, set the RATE to AVG, PEAK to OFF, MAX to accommodate the results, and RANGE to 15 dB.  I then hit PAGE again to get to the large display version of the RTA.

MGbert

[Kiefer74]

MGbert,

That seems to be a good way to make some lil tweaks here and there. My 20-40hz range looks so extreme but somehow it just sounds right with music. Any other tips or tweaks I'm always up for giving something new a try, though I think I've pretty much nailed down the 2 settings I'll be using for movies and music. I may use something like the house curve or something else when using my Apple TV though...the mids and highs are overly bright on most everything. Not sure if it's across the band or just all high frequencies. Same goes for the Ruko stick too for movies (not music).

Regards,
Jon

[jsm71]

Jon, you asked about the crossover sounding muddy on the JansZens due to the first order crossover.  I won't take your thread sideways any more but no, the handshake from the twin woofers to the twin ESL panels has been lauded as perhaps the best hybrid execution to date.  It is totally seamless and you can dial in as much ESL bias as you want.  There are both bass and tweeter controls on each speaker to voice things as you wish.  I was thinking of 20.7s some day perhaps, but no longer.  Enjoy the 10cs.  The Beringer also gives you tons of voicing control. 

[Kiefer74]

Scott,

That's great that the Janszens integrate so well. I was mainly asking because i'ver read some reviews about the 10B's and early 10c's and how people preferred the lower xover point that the Behringer could provide at 48db per octave @ 172hz compared to the analog xover going at 24db per octave at a xover point around 350hz. The 3rd order sounding more 'Hi Fi' but the 4th order sounding better overall because the panel was essentially creating all of the mids and highs which sounded better and more like a full range stat, but with bass!

Muddy was a really bad way for me to put it. I meant to ask how well the woofers and stats integrated or blended. I know from hearing the 10c's that the transition can sound almost seamless (well totally seamless to my ears). So the 1st order xover made me wonder. I'll have to hear them sometime if I get the chance.

Don't worry about taking my thread sideways. Now that I have electrostats I wish there was more talk about them. 

[MGbert]

MGbert,

That seems to be a good way to make some lil tweaks here and there. My 20-40hz range looks so extreme but somehow it just sounds right with music. Any other tips or tweaks I'm always up for giving something new a try, though I think I've pretty much nailed down the 2 settings I'll be using for movies and music. I may use something like the house curve or something else when using my Apple TV though...the mids and highs are overly bright on most everything. Not sure if it's across the band or just all high frequencies. Same goes for the Ruko stick too for movies (not music).

Regards,
Jon

De nada.     I'm still tweaking MY "house curve".  It's easy to get a single recording to sound good; to get most of your library to sound good without going too far is more challenging!  Once I'm satisfied, I'll post details.

MGbert

[a.wayne]

Ahhhh, the  EQ conundrum ..................................

[jsm71]

Jon, if you are interested in reading a good review on the JansZens rather than customer raves and if you don't get The Absolute Sound, Robert Greene just recently did a pretty deep dive here: http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/janszen-za21-loudspeaker/

[titaniumheads]

I just ordered a pair of JansZens three weeks ago before the price increase and Dave let me in on the early adopter program for another 20% savings. I will be interested to see how they compare to my Mag 3.7s with two JL audio 113s. My room is 24 x 14 with treatments. My friends think I will be disappointed, well see.

[SteveFord]

Post a review on those, would you please?

[jsm71]

Titaniumheads, I had Maggie 1.7s with a Velodyne 15" Servo SW.  I sold the Maggies as soon as the JansZen woofers broke in and never looked back.  I returned my SW to my HT setup in the family room.  While I really liked the Maggie presentation, the SW was never really integrated very well.  That is most likely my fault, but the amazing coherence between ESL panels and woofers, plus the woofer's deep reach (into the 20s with some roll off - flat to 30Hz) made the SW unnecessary.  Your friends are probably thinking with their eyes and assuming the small JansZens can't deliver.  Be ready for a pleasant surprise.  I too will be interested in your impressions after things break in some.  Remember, they will sound thin right out of the box.  There are a number of us out there, ex-Maggie Janszen owners I mean.

I hope David doesn't keep you waiting too long.  Did you order the AirLayer option?  I don't have it.  I was a real early buyer and worked with David directly before he developed that option.  He's been trying to get me interested in an upgrade and I may do that someday.  What part of the country are you in?  I'm just a short drive from David's operation and have been able to spend time with him on a number of occasions.  He's a great guy to do business with and a very talented designer.

Congrats on the order. 

Scott

[titaniumheads]

Thanks for the info JSM. How long did they take to break in? I always worry when I hear something needs to break in. As in is the sound of the speaker changing or is our brain adjusting to the difference. I did order the air layer, it was the walnut plinth that is the wait. I am a long ways away, Idaho. I belong to an audio club here and will have a meeting to have some other ears listen. I have had the Maggies for over a year which is longer than I have had any other speaker, so that's saying something.

[SteveFord]

If the smaller JansZens can do that same soundstage as the monolithic 3.7s do that would make it quite a contender. 
 (I always remember that scene from 2001: A Space Odyssey where the apes are beating around on the ground and a Magnepan comes shooting up out of the dirt).
Where was I?  Oh yeah, the JansZens.  They're about 3X the price of the 1.7s so that's not really a valid comparison.  It would be kind of ridiculous if they didn't come out on top!
They look to be priced at around a 3.7 plus a 1.7 or 3.7 plus two good subwoofers so that's really their competition.

[jsm71]

@Titanium - What motivated you to make this change?  I really wasn't in the market for new speakers, but I was lured by David to demo the speakers and after doing so the rest is history.  I have no regrets that I didn't consider the 3.7s more.  I have heard the 3.7s a number of times and well...

The break in seemed only to apply to the woofers.  I would say a week or two before they mostly relax, not nearly the time needed for the Maggies to reach their full potential.  To reach as low as they are capable of they need to loosen up, similar to stretching before an athletic exercise.  Playing at volume with firm bass might help.  I just listened at my normal levels a couple hours each night and let things happen.  The ESL panels are so lightweight I don't think break in applies.

@Steve - You are right that the price difference against 1.7s doesn't make for a fair fight.  I knew I was stepping way up, even above the 3.7s when I made the purchase.  I was actually considering 3.7s or even 20.7s as "next" speakers but I fell in love with the smaller footprint and I like the overall sound better.  The 3.7s are pretty damn nice sounding though.  Both speakers have a lot going for them.

I've detailed this on other threads, but the JansZen advantages as I see them:
  -  Much easier to work into any room and easy on the eyes.  No domination.
  -  Wonderful frequency balance and range.  The overall bass with twin woofers is better IMO than panels (smaller than the 20s) reaching for those notes.
  -  ESL timbre superiority.  I'm not the first to suggest ESLs are the ultimate transducer.  They are just so easy to listen to.  No distortion.
  -  Grace under fire.  Robert Greene (latest The Absolute Sound review) said they don't exhibit "Room Roar" particularly in upper frequencies when the volume is high.
  -  Easy load.  I'm running a 25 watt tube amp and it is plenty for me, but it WILL start to strain above comfortable levels.  I'm upgrading to about 40 watts with an overbuilt power supply, and that will remove any remaining volume restrictions.  Tube amps can be used with Maggies, but they need to be much beefier.

Scott

[SteveFord]

Do the JansZens do that big sound stage like the larger Maggies do or is it more of a directional speaker with a small sweet spot?
3.7s and the 20.7s (especially) can give you a huge soundstage which is my preference. 

[titaniumheads]

I guess I just like listening to different speakers. They all have their advantage and tradeoffs, kind of like women. At one time I had three different speakers, amps and pre amps and would mix and match. Bought and sold on audiogon before it went downhill. To me its a hobby and learning experience along with being a legal high at times.

[jsm71]

Steve, in my room the JansZen soundstage is wider with a larger sweetspot but not as tall.  It gets taller the deeper your room is and if you can sit further back.  The speakers are tilted backwards slightly and this raises the presentation over distance.  Off axis listening keeps a good stereo image but you lose some of the high frequency sizzle.  Off axis listening with the Maggies is not as good.  Apples and Oranges and the room always plays a large part.   In a room with different wall angles and/or size, perceptions could be very different.  Both are plenty entertaining.

Like Titaniumheads implies, choice is the spice of life.  Jon, the OP on this thread has immense control over how to make his speakers sound with the Beringer piece controlling the frequency response.  The Sanders speakers are the ultimate dipole with the narrowest sweetspot, but oh how sweet it is when sitting there.  Isn't it wonderful to have options? 

[SteveFord]

Have you tried getting them up in the air a little bit? 
I know that's what I'd be doing.

I can understand the speaker swapping bug and the appeal of electrostats in particular.