Whole house surge protection?

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JerryM

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Re: Whole house surge protection?
« Reply #20 on: 8 Aug 2013, 08:53 pm »
Anyone have this as a first line of defense?

I don't; there's simply not enough exposure where I live. If I were going to pursue it, though, I would absolutely, positively, have a talk with the folks at Brick Wall. Talk is cheap, and these guys know tons and are super cool. While I'm certain they would parrot Wayner's points regarding direct lightning strikes, I'm quite certain they would advise you how to best protect a whole-home, whether you're buying their product or not.  :thumb:

Have fun,

Jerry

sts9fan

Re: Whole house surge protection?
« Reply #21 on: 9 Aug 2013, 12:04 am »
OK, so these will protect from lightning no matter what and I should stand by the panel.. Got it!

JerryM

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Re: Whole house surge protection?
« Reply #22 on: 9 Aug 2013, 12:11 am »
OK, so these will protect from lightning no matter what and I should stand by the panel.. Got it!

Don't forget to fly a kite. Flying a kite is important.  :wink:

rodge827

Re: Whole house surge protection?
« Reply #23 on: 9 Aug 2013, 12:27 am »
OK, so these will protect from lightning no matter what and I should stand by the panel.

Barefoot on a wet floor!  :jester:
« Last Edit: 9 Aug 2013, 01:38 am by rodge827 »

Bill A

Re: Whole house surge protection?
« Reply #24 on: 9 Aug 2013, 01:15 am »
And make sure your watch pocket is empty- you'll need the room :icon_lol:

Really, you should use some protection. A strike down the road a'ways may not send thousands of volts your way, but a few hundred can still kill your stuff and a surge protector could save it.

Bill

sts9fan

Re: Whole house surge protection?
« Reply #25 on: 9 Aug 2013, 01:27 am »
I think the Brickwall products look just right for point of use.
I might need to wait on the whole house. Mainly due to the fact I have three boxes and the main box has fuses. I was going to change it out but my electrician convinced me to keep them for now. I am doing a rather complete reno of a 1840 house so changing out a properly wired box is not a priority. That said, I guess I could put a few of the cheapies in.

jtwrace

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Re: Whole house surge protection?
« Reply #26 on: 9 Aug 2013, 01:36 am »

Speedskater

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Re: Whole house surge protection?
« Reply #27 on: 9 Aug 2013, 01:46 am »
Henry W. Ott on:

Series Mode AC Protectors
The common MOV based shunt surge protector dumps large transients currents onto the AC neutral and ground conductor increasing the local ground potential, series protectors do not. To learn more about the advantages of Series Mode Surge Protectors, (see link below).  Some manufacturers of series mode surge suppressors are listed below:

Brick Wall

ZeroSurge

SurgeX

http://www.hottconsultants.com/resources.html

jneutron

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Re: Whole house surge protection?
« Reply #28 on: 9 Aug 2013, 01:40 pm »
I'm not saying that it's not needed, just making it clear that there are some things it can't do and protecting equipment from lightning is one of them.

After all, the arc of lightning had enough voltage to jump from about 10,000 feet to earth (lightning doesn't just fall to the earth), so jumping a small gap in a little box is simply no problem.

 :D

I have been in complete agreement with everything you have said...

I only wish to elaborate on the 10,000 feet statement.

The flashover does not require that the dielectric capability of the air be exceeded the entire length of the channel.  Initiation and continuation of the bolt relies on the electric gradient at the tip of the bolt.

Dry nitrogen for example, is typically 70 volts per mil, 70kv per inch, or 27 kv per cm.  A uniform infinite flat plate capacitor with a spacing of 10 cm could hold back 270 kilovolts.  A van de Graf with a 10 cm spacing from the central electrode ball to the grounding ball will spark at about a quarter million volts. 

This volt per distance does not scale well, but relies on there being no edges, points, corners..  At features such as this, the electric field gradient will be higher, so breakdown will occur at features first.

When a bolt initiates, the tip ionizes the air due to the gradient at the tip, and behind the tip there is no real gradient..  So the sharp "object" advances. 

Liquid argon for example, flashes over at 2 megavolts per cm.  A 1.2mm diameter sphere with 125 Kv on it will have a surface field of 2.08 megavolts, which will initiate flashover.  A .1mm wire 10 cm from a grounded plate and 125 kv will have a surface field of 1.8 megavolts, very close.  This is why all very high voltage widgits have big toroids or tubes or spheres...to prevent high surface fields that start an arc.  Pass the vinyl Igor....

In general, the distance the bolt travels is not determined by the cloud to earth potential, but the gradient where the bolt initiates.  The path it takes once it hits a house will be determined by the gradients at the leading point.  Typically, the gradient points directly at the most expensive electronics it can find.... :cry:

jn

ps.  Today, I feel good..so I will not apologize for the complexity of this post...I am having fun.

jtwrace

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Re: Whole house surge protection?
« Reply #29 on: 9 Aug 2013, 01:58 pm »

Donald

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Re: Whole house surge protection?
« Reply #30 on: 9 Aug 2013, 02:19 pm »

ted_b

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Re: Whole house surge protection?
« Reply #31 on: 27 Aug 2013, 12:59 am »
This is what I use:








Environmental Potentials EP2050 On Breaker Box
Environmental Potentials EP 2750 Ground Filter
Environmental Potentials EP 2450 On Gear


Easy to install and works great!
Before I had the EP 2050 installed my old 36"crt would flicker whenever lightning was on it's way.
Hasn't happened since and the blacks on the screen were greatly improved!
Have had it installed for about 6.5 years, and the little yellow lights let me know everything is fine when I walk by them daily on the way to my van.

http://ep2000.com/uploads/EP-2050_SeriesSpecifications.pdf

http://ep2000.com/uploads/EP_Ground%20Filter.pdf



I use the EXACT same on my mains (not the home theater piece).  Doug Joseph (EP2000NA President) was very helpful when I bought mine back in 2007.  And not only is my house protected from (minor, of course) hits, but the ground loop filter has completely lowered the noise floor of my whole system, and eliminated nay ground loop gremlins that I fought for years.

JLM

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Re: Whole house surge protection?
« Reply #32 on: 31 Aug 2013, 11:59 pm »
Building codes, traffic laws, etc. are all based on finding enough bad experiences to justify making a rule.

Note (I've revised my post above, recommend reading it again).

jea48

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Re: Whole house surge protection?
« Reply #33 on: 4 Dec 2013, 05:43 pm »
An interesting video on lightning.

Discovery Wonders of Weather: Lightning Phenomena
http://science.howstuffworks.com/nature/406-discovery-wonders-of-weather-lightning-phenomena-video.htm