[DS-21]

Gee Thanks DS! And why do I value you opinion?

Oh, so now fluffy audio postmodernists don't value anecdote? My anecdote was simply that "Anthony's" own speaker wire, that is to say the solid-core 18/4 in a white jacket with "Anthony Gallo Acoustics" on it in grey-black dot-matrix print, is complete and utter garbage. Bend it twice (for example, to run it along a baseboard) and chances are risibly high that at least one of the solid-core wires will break inside. I trust that the wildest-eyed tin-earred wire religionist would be able to distinguish a speaker wire with continuity and a speaker wire that does not have continuity in a blind test. Almost every time. (Though if the wire is suitable expensive, or suitably backed by idiotic pseudoscience propaganda, perhaps the individual would be convinced that silence punctuated with intermittent signal as the wire is moved around is actually "Higher End" than continuously playing music.)

The point was that, given that his own wire product is such trash, his recommendations on wire are better ignored than followed.

Finally, for the OP.  I've been meaning to try the White Lightning Moonshine speaker cable.  Similar, but not the same, to Barry's home brew, only using Wal Mart extension cord.  http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/whitelightning/moonshine.html

Cutting up a cheap extension cord to make speaker wire is a good idea, especially if one only has to think about short runs. (If one's wiring a modern multichannel system for SACD/DVD-A playback, better to just buy a spool; one invariably underestimates the amount of wire needed.) Another good reason to do so is if one has an unused extension cord lying about. It's generally more attractive than shotgun speaker wire, because it's already in a jacket.

But there's nothing unique or special about that Wal-Mart extension cord. Any extension cord of the same gauge will perform exactly the same as a speaker wire. (Or an extension cord.)

I like DS-21's idea of Mil spec cables too, there is tons of surplus cable of extraordinary quality available for the DIY person, and DIY cable building is fine for even the rank amateur.  Unlike DS-21, I think you can get significant differences in speaker cables by altering geometry and material, in that order.  There are sound engineering reasons for this that are well documented and easily researched on the web.

I'm perpetually amused by the the "audiophile's" tropism to any con-man who, in between trips to the bank, can whisper sweet nothings into his (and always his, it seems) ears about "better sound" with some pseudoscientific mumbo jumbo.

But it must be tough to be unable to "get as involved with the music" (as was written above) unless magic wires intercede! That's one mental illness I'm glad I don't suffer from.

I would not recommend either silver plated nor tinned copper wires, go with pure OFC copper, or pure silver, or an alloy.

Well, then you don't actually like my idea of mil-spec. At least, I've never seen a bare copper jacketed mil-spec wire of suitable gauge for speaker wire. They're all tinned with something (generally silver or tin), because tinning makes such a marked difference in corrosion resistance compared to bare copper. True, just because I haven't seen bare copper insulated wire of suitable thickness for speaker wire (say 10-16 AWG) labeled "mil spec" does not mean the stuff doesn't exist, But it is a good indication that such wire is not good enough for Lockheed's fighter jets and missiles.

But I'm genuinely curious: why would one ever prefer a wire that's more likely to quickly corrode (bare copper, alloys) to one that's very resistant to corrosion (silver- or tin- plated copper)?

Which is kinda silly on the C&C circle.  I mean, it's not like anyone's gonna splurge on mega buck cables in an under $1000 system.

When one's on a budget, spending a cent more than absolutely necessary on sonically irrelevant things such as wires constitutes a "splurge." Glad that the OP was able to get some free wire, though. Hopefully it's not the stuff that turns green.

[Thebiker]

Geez, I haven't stopped in recently, life gets in the way as we all know.  This is the first post I've glanced at and I wonder if dueling pistols might not be needed, or maybe swords 

This was USUALLY a place of friendly discourse with a rare heated exchange.

[Letitroll98]

Reasonable people of moderate or better intelligence do not give credence to phenomena that do not exist, such as the "sound" of audio wiring. They don't tend to believe in Bigfoot or the Loch Ness Monster, either.

I was gonna let this go by without comment, but your insistence leads me back to this post as this statement lies at the heart of the matter.  So one is led to believe by your pronouncement that you suppose the hundreds of AC'ers and hundreds of thousands of Audiophiles the world over, many of them fully qualified engineers, who hear differences in audio cables, are all unreasonable and of less than moderate intelligence?  And anyone who does hear differences in audio cables therefore must also believe in Bigfoot and/or the Loch Ness Monster?  Is that your statement?  No, no, stop, once again sir, is that your statement?

My point being twofold.  One, it's perfectly fine that you don't hear differences in audio cables and it's permissible to express that viewpoint.  It's not permissible to insult those who do hear differences in audio cables, either directly or by inference.  Second, might I gently suggest it's not the best idea to pick a fight with the guy who can delete your posts and ban you from the circle.  Not making any threats here, just a gentle suggestion that you may do with as you please.

Happy posting and have a great day.   

[fredgarvin]

Glad that the OP was able to get some free wire, though. Hopefully it's not the stuff that turns green.

Green wire helps stop global warming and heals the Earth. 

[Barry_NJ]

Gee Thanks DS! And why do I value you opinion?

Oh, so now fluffy audio postmodernists don't value anecdote? snip...

Hmmm... You've failed to answer my question. Are you an EE with PHD training in quantum physics? Do you fully believe that "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can nothing that can't currently be counted counts."?

It must be fun living on a flat world at the center of the universe that was created in only 7 days...

[srb]

For myself, I hold these truths to be self evident:

1.  Cables can affect the sound, particularly due to varying differences in resistance, capacitance and inductance and can sometimes be responsible for good or bad "synergy" between components.

2.  I won't spend big bucks for a cable ($50 - $100 max)

3.  I won't buy a cable, even if within budget, if it has the word Liquid, Ceramic or Nano in the name.  Or Monster, but that's a given.

Steve

[Ericus Rex]

For myself, I hold these truths to be self evident:

1.  Cables can affect the sound, particularly due to varying differences in resistance, capacitance and inductance and can sometimes be responsible for good or bad "synergy" between components.

2.  I won't spend big bucks for a cable ($50 - $100 max)

3.  I won't buy a cable, even if within budget, if it has the word Liquid, Ceramic or Nano in the name.  Or Monster, but that's a given.

Steve

I agree completely!

[corndog71]

I just replaced the headphone cable of my AKG 702s with a home made 3-wire braid of Kimber TC wire and it made an easily noticeable difference in the sound and improved the bass quality too!  Only cost me a few bucks for the connectors and I already had the wire from another project.

[wushuliu]

Second, might I gently suggest it's not the best idea to pick a fight with the guy who can delete your posts and ban you from the circle.  Not making any threats here, just a gentle suggestion that you may do with as you please.

Happy posting and have a great day.

Wouldn't be his first ban from a forum...

[Letitroll98]

Wouldn't be his first ban from a forum...

And upon reflection it's prolly not fair for me to say that, even in the lighter tone it was meant to be.  I just don't understand the need to flame up on this topic, we're not going to agree or convince anyone.  I have a lot more appreciation for the folks who say "I tried such and such and didn't hear a difference" than the "I use Belden because I know nothing else could sound better, it's science". 

All that being said, I have a hard time hearing much of a difference in well made speaker cables of the same general construction.  If we change geometry, connections, or materials, in that order, I hear more differences.         

[brooklyn]

What happened to cheap and cheerful? 

[Bigfishhk]

What happened to cheap and cheerful? 

yup!
well I got my donated monoprice speaker cable, monoprice banana plugs and interconnects, and a coaxial (their 'high quality' range).. all for a the price of a few beers. And they are sounding pretty fine I have to say,  connected to cd player/dac/ SB touch.
in comparison, I had tried out $400 speaker cable, expensive interconnects etc on the same system and quite frankly I did NOT hear a difference.
Anyhow NO wish to get into that old debate, just happy with what I've got now.
Cheep and very cheerful.
Tom

[earplay]

Finally, for the OP.  I've been meaning to try the White Lightning Moonshine speaker cable.  Similar, but not the same, to Barry's home brew, only using Wal Mart extension cord.  http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/whitelightning/moonshine.html   Note this is not the Nordost product of a similar name, although their White Lightning speaker cable is moderately priced for a retail cable, nothing like a Cheap and Cheerful product.

Letitroll98, I just took out the last bit of WLM White Lightning from my systems (the original good Woods stuff sourced thru Indianapolis). I had been struggling for quite a while with a lack of luster in my system's sound. I had taken it on faith that the WLM White Lighting was not the cause. Turns out it was. On the word of an AC'er I respect, I picked up some Blue Jeans cable (Belden 5T00UE) unterminated as an interim measure. Problem solved! The music has polish and sheen and life at last. What a relief.

My respected friend has the same opinion as I now have of WLM White Lightning. If you want cheap, go for the WLM White Lightning, but if you want cheap AND cheerful, go for the Blue Jeans (Belden 5T00UE). It costs less than a buck a foot plus shipping.

[Letitroll98]

1st and foremost, I'm glad you have improved the sound of your system.  I haven't tried either various Belden wires or the White Lightning recipe as I just don't hear that much difference in speaker cables, so I haven't ratcheted up the effort to do so.  I notice subtle changes for sure, but not enough to get worked up about, about the same as different aftermarket power cords, nothing like I hear with different interconnects.  I suspect this is very system dependent.  But I have a nagging doubt....

When I hear anyone talk about a big change in sound switching to "X" cable, including and especially myself, I wonder if they've performed (remember to perform for myself) a simple control.  Unplug and clean your contacts, then listen to your system for a bit to acclimate to the new, wondrous sound before you begin comparing cables.  The best tweak for improving sound is to clean and treat your contacts with something like Caig products, it always sounds like I have new cables when I do this.  However like many I'm always too exited to consistently perform this task before trying out my new toy and I'm kicking myself later as it always costs me hours in switching back in forth to confirm something that's usually much simpler if I clean the old contacts first.

So how many notice a big improvement when they clean their contacts, and how many clean the old cables before trying out new ones?       

[earplay]

That's good advice. I always treat my contacts with Caig so that was not a variable in this instance.

I'm not saying that the Belden cable is super primo, tho. And, of course, all these things are system-dependent. I've used WLM White Lightning extensively in the past.

I was using it with some highly touted niche speakers. It was actually preferable with those speakers. But, my system was irritating and in tracking down the source of the irritation, I tried a variety of amps, sources and wires in various combinations, but the irritation remained. I decided finally that the source of the irritation might actually be my highly touted speakers. I got out my old speakers (25 years-old Monitor Audio 852MD's, teflon capped and Ohno copper wired, pared down Edison posts) and put them into the system. Trying several different cables, I found they paired well with MAC speaker cables. The MAC cables heightened the irritation factor of the system before I installed the Monitor Audios. The irritating speakers went up for sale.

In a recent move, I lost my MAC speaker cables, so I went back to WLM White Lightning. The WLM deadened the Monitor Audios. Tonally, the WLM are pretty good, but they deaden the sound. A good effect with my earlier speakers, not with the Monitor Audios.

I am hoping to install some old Western Electric cotton insulated wire. In the meantime, my main guru for audiophilic listening suggested I try the Belden wire as a stop gap until I receive the Western Electric cable. Following my guru's guidance, I replaced the WLM with the Belden wire and now my system is musical, life-like and lively. So, there you have some of the basis of my thinking on the Belden 5T00UE vs. WLM White Lightning.

Have I been rambling again?   ﴾͡๏̯͡๏﴿

 

[Letitroll98]

I am hoping to install some old Western Electric cotton insulated wire.

Have I been rambling again?   ﴾͡๏̯͡๏﴿

Sweeet!  The WE stuff might trump everything else.  And no, no rambling at all, very interesting. 

[apollophono]

Has anybody tried the Virtue Audio Showman 10 or 12 ga. speaker cable?
At $1.25 or $1.00/ft I would think that fits in the Cheap and Cheerful
category.