[man630]

I found info on this combination in the Eastern Minimax Phono Preamp review. The Chair Guy suggests using 2 TC-760LC's with  2 12v regulated linear  power supplies.  Sounds like a Great setup. I was about to buy a MS Phonomena II but I think I will give this setup a try. Where do I purchase the  12v regulated linear power supplies and what specific model should I buy. Any other info appreciated. Thanks again to The Chair Guy for recommending this Great Combo to obtain Great Sound on a Budget.

[neobop]

Hi, welcome to the vinyl circle.

Interesting idea.  The most popular supply for these 12V units is the Pyramid 2/3 amp supply at Parts Express or Amazon.  It's a regulated switching supply.  I use one for a TC DA converter and it made a noticeable improvement.  Even better might be a 12V battery, like a small car or motorcycle battery.  Cost might be prohibitive as you would need two, and charging capability.  Maybe something like this, previously linked to by Dlaloum:

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Hotsale-6800mAh-DC-12V-Super-Rechargeable-Lithium-ion-Battery-Pack-/130909767214?pt=AU_Electronics_Batteries_Chargers&hash=item1e7ad4862e&_uhb=1
 
You just have to make sure that a unit like this has enough current capability.  It probably does.

I'm not sure what your cost would be on two of these units + two supplies, but I suspect you would be approaching the cost of a superior unit.  You might want to consider something that's a little more money ($300) and is said to beat just about anything < $1K, including the Phonomena.   That's the Vista:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=114404.0

It just looks like a better long term investment.  I suspect, a year or two from now you'll be looking to upgrade the two TC-760 and if you got the Vista you'll probably be looking to upgrade your cartridge or record collection. 
neo 
 

[man630]

Thanks for the reply neobop,  it's greatly appreciated. I have been researching many  phono  mc preamps for the last month and the Vista flew right under my Radar. Do you have any opinions on the higher priced Vista Phono 1+ (399) vs  the Phono 1 (299)  I will be using a Denon 103 Cart, Custom Plinthed Lenco L75, Sumiko MMT arm & CJ PV5 Preamp.


Randy

[neobop]

Randy,
I guess the Vista would be an excellent match for a 103 and PV5.  Vista is said to be highly detailed and accurate, which should be a perfect compliment for the musicality of that set-up.

I'll tell you flat out that I don't own the Vista, but like you I've been looking into inexpensive phono stages and this one looks like a no-brainer in the under $1K class.  There is only one model now the Phono 1 MK II.  Introductory price is $299.  The features of user adjustable gain and load is enticing, but more important is SQ.  I don't see how it could have the endorsements and recommendations without being a superior unit.  There's an impressive list of other units discarded in favor of Vista.  We had a recent thread here about it. 
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=117594.0

I'm usually skeptical about the validity of a couple of audiophile endorsements.  Some people tend to have creative hearing concerning their purchases.  But the evidence here seems overwhelming.  The Phono 1 MKII would sell for around $600/700 through normal retail channels.  That would allow for dealer margin and a small profit for the manufacturer.  Over the years I've seen numerous excellent pieces introduced at bargain prices to get things going.  I think Vista is such a piece.
neo

[jsaliga]

Some people tend to have creative hearing concerning their purchases. 

Some?  Try everyone.

I own a TC-760LC, but I haven't used it in years.  I found it to be a very capable phono preamp for the money.  Is it the last word in performance?  No, it isn't.  But I made several 24bit 96Khz needle drops using the TC-760LC, and several audiophiles I shared them with were very taken with the sound until they learned that I was using an inexpensive phono preamp.  Funny how opinions will change like that. 

I can't really compare what I am using today to the TC-760LC because everything is different, including the turntable, tonearm, and cartridge.  But I will say that I was pretty satisfied using it with the Rega P7, RB700 arm, and Benz Wood M2 cartridge in my old setup.

To the OP...if you want to take a TC-760LC for a test drive I could see my way to loaning you mine.  PM me if you are interested.

I have not heard the Vista so I can't really comment on it.

--Jerome

[neobop]

Some?  Try everyone.

I own a TC-760LC, but I haven't used it in years.  --Jerome

Everyone?  Nonsense.  Last year I bought a Vincent hybrid preamp and sold it a couple of months later.  Go to NeedleDr clearance items and see the stuff that was returned.
But that's neither here or there.  The fact that you haven't used it in years speaks volumes.

Randy,
The TC-760 would make more sense, but the unit might be inappropriate for the 103.  MC input sensitivity is 600uV.  103 output is .3mV.  Maybe you'd have enough gain, maybe not.  If you're curious take Jerome up on his generous offer.  Used in conjunction with your CJ it might be all right. 
If you're thinking of buying 2 for dual mono, the gain won't change.  It might be hard to balance the volume controls and they won't help the SQ, only hurt.
If you buy 2 w/power supplies you'll be spending around $200 ?   Might drive you nuts.  I don't know about you, but I'd be thinking, for another $100.....
neo
 

[jsaliga]

Everyone?  Nonsense.  Last year I bought a Vincent hybrid preamp and sold it a couple of months later.  Go to NeedleDr clearance items and see the stuff that was returned.
But that's neither here or there.  The fact that you haven't used it in years speaks volumes.

The fact that I haven't used the TC-760LC in years doesn't mean anything beyond the fact that I am no longer using it.  I loved the Rega P7 I used to own.  I also loved the Sota Star Sapphire that was in my system for a number of years. 

You want to disagree with me then that's fine.  I can take it.  But please, you know nothing about me or my motives for choosing the equipment that I have.

But enough of that, my offer to the OP still stands.  If you want to try my TC-760LC let me know.

--Jerome

[wushuliu]

Isn't a Hagerman Bugle 2 about the same price as two 760s plus Pyramids? The original Bugle was MUCH better than the TC preamp and the Bugle 2 now comes with a wallwart.

[neobop]

The fact that I haven't used the TC-760LC in years doesn't mean anything beyond the fact that I am no longer using it.  I loved the Rega P7 I used to own.  I also loved the Sota Star Sapphire that was in my system for a number of years. 

You want to disagree with me then that's fine.  I can take it.  But please, you know nothing about me or my motives for choosing the equipment that I have.

But enough of that, my offer to the OP still stands.  If you want to try my TC-760LC let me know.

--Jerome

A most generous offer. 
I know more than you seem to remember.  2- Soundsmith MMP3 and Cinemag SUT with Ortofon Gold Reference SPU?

"Since you asked, I use a pair of them.  One is fed by a Bob's Devices Cinemag Blue SUT to run my Ortofon SPU Gold Reference LOMC stereo cartridge.  The other is used to run my Ortofon SPU CG25 DI MK II mono cartridge, mounted on a second tonearm on the same table.

But I have to tell you that I think if you heard one phono preamp you pretty much heard them all, once you get past matching load impedance that is.  I know my stance on this is very much outside of the mainstream.  I have owned phono preamps costing as little as $80 and as much as $5,000.  I won't say they all sounded the same, but I will say that I feel spending any more than $500 on a phono preamp is a colossal waste of money in my experience.  There are others who will argue that you should drain your bank account on the most expensive phono preamp you can buy.  Whatever floats your boat."


Maybe we can agree to disagree.  I suspect the reason you're satisfied is because of a well chosen SUT going into a "better" MM stage, the MMP3. 
Randy is not in that position.  When you go straight in to a phono stage with a LOMC, the high gain stage becomes very important. 
neo

[neobop]

Isn't a Hagerman Bugle 2 about the same price as two 760s plus Pyramids? The original Bugle was MUCH better than the TC preamp and the Bugle 2 now comes with a wallwart.

Good one.  The Bugle 2 is $189 or $139 - kit. 

That's the point.  It's all relative.  Relative to whatever else you can get for similar money.
neo

[jsaliga]

I know more than you seem to remember.

No, you really don't.  You are giving yourself way too much credit.  You started out saying that the fact that I no longer use the TC-760LC speaks volumes.  Really?  Volumes about what, exactly?  You seem to think knowledge of what am or am no longer using provides some insight into why I made a decision to change something.  It doesn't, and your insistence that it does is a bit disingenuous.

If you are really interested in why I made changes to my setup then I'll be happy to share that information with you.

I suggest we either let this drop or take it to PM. 

--Jerome

[jsaliga]

Double post.  Sorry.

[neobop]

If you are really interested in why I made changes to my setup then I'll be happy to share that information with you.

I suggest we either let this drop or take it to PM. 

--Jerome

Why let this drop or take it to PM?  Perhaps what you have to say would be useful to Randy, the OP.  This is his thread and he can decide for himself the veracity of information and relevance of opinion.  You are right about my being a bit disingenuous.  I'm a little curious, but I really don't care.  You seem to be more interested in complaining about my assumption, than making a definitive statement.  Let me guess.  The 760 overloaded by the SUT? 

TC-760 vs MMP3, do tell. 
   
neo

[jsaliga]

Why let this drop or take it to PM?  Perhaps what you have to say would be useful to Randy, the OP.  This is his thread and he can decide for himself the veracity of information and relevance of opinion.  You are right about my being a bit disingenuous.  I'm a little curious, but I really don't care.  You seem to be more interested in complaining about my assumption, than making a definitive statement.  Let me guess.  The 760 overloaded by the SUT? 

TC-760 vs MMP3, do tell. 
   
neo

You're right to the extent that my main interest was to point out that your assumptions about my reasons for moving on from the TC-760LC were wrong.  In short, I moved on simply because I wanted to, and not because I felt there were serious sonic shortcomings in the TC-760LC.  I could go into a lot more detail, but since you really don't care...I really don't care to spend any more of my time discussing it.  Besides, that won't help the OP -- this thread is about his circumstances and choices, not mine.

The OP has a standing offer from me to try a TC-760LC at zero cost and zero risk to him -- so I think I am already being as helpful as I possibly can.  He doesn't have to depend on opinion to decide if one is right for him.  He has an opportunity to hear one and can decide for himself based on first-hand experience.  I know he is aware of the offer and he can take me up on it...or not.  It doesn't matter to me either way and my feelings won't be hurt if he isn't interested.

--Jerome

[neobop]

I found info on this combination in the Eastern Minimax Phono Preamp review. The Chair Guy suggests using 2 TC-760LC's with  2 12v regulated linear  power supplies.  Sounds like a Great setup. I was about to buy a MS Phonomena II but I think I will give this setup a try. Where do I purchase the  12v regulated linear power supplies and what specific model should I buy. Any other info appreciated. Thanks again to The Chair Guy for recommending this Great Combo to obtain Great Sound on a Budget.

Do to recent circumstances I'm reluctant to say anything, but I think the recommendation for 2 of these units is a bad one.  I doubt if 2 would sound any better than 1 with an upgraded power supply.  Dual mono can be beneficial in an amp.  The power supply would only have to modulate bass in 1 channel.  In a preamp it would ensure separation, but benefits would be less.  Separation in a phono stage is limited by the cartridge.  It's true that a phono pre applies a lot of gain to a low voltage signal, but IMO your money would be better spent with another phono stage.

There have been a lot of threads at Karma lately about inexpensive phono stages.  Some prefer the Art DJ over the 750 MM stage.  BTW, the 750 has 5dB better S/N than the 760 MM section.  I doubt if the MC section will be a "great setup".   The problem with trying it, is having a basis of comparison.  There's a difference between adequate and something that really sounds great.

The MMP 3 is a $500 MM stage and wouldn't work with your 103.  IMO your best bet would be with Vista or Bugle.  Bugle can be configured for either 40 or 60dB gain which should be fine with your setup.  Vista has all kinds of options with plug in resistors for gain and load. 

Sorry about all the bullshit.  I thought you might get something meaningful out of it.
neo

[S Clark]

Both Neo and Jerome are vinyl gurus compared to myself, but I do have a working knowledge of some of the pre's being discussed here.  I've got one of those TC 760 preamps... and for a $50+ unit it is pretty decent.  I've also got a highly upgraded Cambridge 640P that is a better unit, but it's a $200 unit before an extra $50 worth of parts.   I've also got a Vista phono1... it's better than the Cambridge. Then I bought a Dodd phono pre which I like better than the Vista... and a buddy loaned me Graham Slee gold that is different than all of the others- crisper detail than all, but not as solid in the bass as the Dodd.   

The Cambridge will play mm and mc and I'm not using it.  It might be a better solution than a pair of TC760's and considerably less than $300 for a new Vista.  If man630 is interested, he could try it for a while to see if it does what he needs.  I be surprised if the pair of TC's is the best option.

[jsaliga]

Both Neo and Jerome are vinyl gurus compared to myself...

If by guru you mean I have a lot of experience with different tables, arms, cartridges, etc...then perhaps.    But I honestly have never thought of myself as one.

One of the great things about audio forums is the abundance of information and opinions available on any given subject.  It also happens to be one of the weaknesses of audio forums.  Sometimes it is difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff, and information overload can often lead to decision-making gridlock for the person seeking advice.  One should not hold their breath waiting for a consensus to emerge on anything in the home audio world.

Randy could try a Vista.  But then the problem with trying one is having a basis of comparison. 

The most important takeaway from this discussion for Randy, IMO, is that he should buy a phono preamp that will provide the gain and loading needed for the Denon 103 he plans to use.  I can't really advise him on that because I owned a 103 very briefly and ended up giving it away to someone who broke the cantilever on theirs and could not afford to immediately buy a replacement.  As a general rule I never miss an opportunity to remain silent on matters where I have little or no direct experience.  And since I never tried the 103 with the TC-760LC I can't say if they are a good fit -- which was the main reason I offered to loan him mine.

Randy should also do his own homework.  For instance, if he is seriously thinking about buying one of the phono preamps that have been recommended then peruse the owner's manual and get a firm grasp of the product's features and operation before pulling the trigger.  The gain and loading choices of the Vista would seem to make it much more flexible, but someone might not appreciate having to open it up and install resistors if they plan to try a lot of different cartridges with it in a relatively short period of time.  On the other hand, convenience usually comes at an increased cost.  If convenience is indeed a requirement then the Nova Phenomena II originally being considered or the RSA F-117 Nighthawk (gain and loading selectors via knobs on the front panel) are probably more appropriate.  I have owned both and either of them would be a great choice...but now you are at more than double the price of the Vista.  It doesn't take long in this hobby to talk yourself -- or let someone else talk you -- into spending a lot more money than you originally planned.  But if all Randy really wants to do is use the 103 then the Vista would seem to be a good choice, and it has the flexibility to adapt to other cartridges if at some point down the road he decides to make a change.  The other low cost phono preamps in the Vista's price range are not as flexible.

(Just doing my part to advance the cause of information overload.  )

--Jerome