[Menace]

Hey guys. Been a long time fan of everything to do with music and the gear we use to reproduce it.  I recently decided it was time to assemble a new rig for a sitting area I've got in my bedroom, and at the heart I want a tube amp.

After doing a bunch of reading, I'm thinking a PP type is what i want but my question is should I be looking to build or buy my first amp?  Now I'm no stranger to electronics as the family business growing up was contract manufacturing, I've taken a bit of EE, have worked for an electronics disti for the last 17 years and have built many electronic projects over the years, the latest being a couple of nixie clocks so building one isn't the question...  I guess what I'd like to get some informed opinions on is bang for buck, build or buy and why?  I'm thinking for what it will cost me to build one and make it look really nice maybe I should be looking for a used amp like an onix sp3 or even a Yaqin?

Thanks in advance...

Doug

[FullRangeMan]

I will increase the options: you could buy a nice Chinese amp and modify it, where the circuit is bad.
Some are so cheap that the chassis and power supply alone worth the price.
Hope this help.

[Ericus Rex]

Tricky question.  If you're looking for some fun than building might be right for you.  But unless you have heard the amp before (that a friend built, say) you may be disappointed with the result with no recourse for getting your money back; people are very leery of buying used DIY.  A better option may be to buy a commercial amp used.  So long as you get an amp at a fair price you could always resell for about what you paid if you don't like the sound.  It's a much safer way to get a good sounding amp IMO.  And you may be able to get something for around the same price as a kit.

What kits are you thinking of specifically?

[Menace]

I will increase the options: you could buy a nice Chinese amp and modify it, where the circuit is bad.
Some are so cheap that the chassis and power supply alone worth the price.
Hope this help.

That's an interesting idea actually... kinda like a best of both worlds sort of thing.  Any reccomendations on said Chinese amps?  I noticed some mods on some of the Yaqin models, but that's about as far as I've got in that department, so anything else I could look into would be great.

Thanks for the idea!

D

[JakeJ]

Hi Doug,

Welcome to AC and the Tube-O-Phile Circle!

It will help us to help you if you give us few hints about budget, listening prefs, speakers you are going to use?  There are some very good Asian built integrated amps that might just be your ticket.

Oh, and we need pictures of those nixie clocks! 

[Menace]

Tricky question.  If you're looking for some fun than building might be right for you.  But unless you have heard the amp before (that a friend built, say) you may be disappointed with the result with no recourse for getting your money back; people are very leery of buying used DIY.  A better option may be to buy a commercial amp used.  So long as you get an amp at a fair price you could always resell for about what you paid if you don't like the sound.  It's a much safer way to get a good sounding amp IMO.  And you may be able to get something for around the same price as a kit.

What kits are you thinking of specifically?

You make an excellent argument about the DIY kit, and as of right now I have nobody I know owning tube gear to audition and I'd hate to pour all that time an and money into a build only to be dissapointed and then be stuck with a boat anchor! Lol. So with that in mind I'm leaning towards a used amp.  As for kits, I hadn't really settled on anything in particular at this point but I was looking at some of the OddWatt stuff or even tempting to piece my own kit together as we distribute Hammond @ my work so I can get the iron and case etc without too much trouble.

I did receive your PM but unfortunately I am still a noob here and am unable to reply. I wanted to thank you for the heads up on that amp, as it's along the lines of what I'm looking for.  Once my account restrictions have been lifted I will reply proper.

Thanks,
D

[FullRangeMan]

That's an interesting idea actually... kinda like a best of both worlds sort of thing.  Any reccomendations on said Chinese amps?  I noticed some mods on some of the Yaqin models, but that's about as far as I've got in that department, so anything else I could look into would be great.

Thanks for the idea!

D

I will refrain to recommend PP amps or Pentodes tubes, as I prefer Triodes DHT tubes and SET amps.
Some 300B and big Triodes amps worth the risk.
There is some 300B on MingDa site, and the MingDa MC3008C on PacificValve site(if you own a stock of NOS USA 805 topcap tubes).
Or MusicalParadise 300B:
http://www.musicalparadise.ca/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=59&product_id=53
Iam sure may be other nice options I unaware.

Please Note: Forget mass made amps with PCBs, you can not modify a PCB tube amp, it must be a poin-to-point wired amp circuit.

[Menace]

Hi Doug,

Welcome to AC and the Tube-O-Phile Circle!

It will help us to help you if you give us few hints about budget, listening prefs, speakers you are going to use?  There are some very good Asian built integrated amps that might just be your ticket.

Oh, and we need pictures of those nixie clocks! 

Well, seeing as this is my first foray into the tube segment I'm thinking $500-1K would be worth the risk for an amp.  This way if I find it's not for me I won't be upset if I lose a couple bucks for some education.  As for my listening pref's, that's a problem because I literally listen to everything... a  lot.  From jazz to hip-hop,  classical to punk...  you name it, I listen to it. (well, I can't say I listen to Country all that much but there are a couple of tracks that have managed to sneak into my rotation, lol)  I've been looking at some of the Asian integrated stuff, and I actually had "purchased" a local used Onix sp3 but the seller flaked on me 2 hours before I was to go pick it up, and that's kinda what prompted this post.  Oh and to complicate things a little further, I'm planning to marry my turntable to this rig so I realize a pre-amp will also be in my future. 

In terms of speakers, I've currently got a set of Soundwave Fidelity Soliloquy's that I'm using on my Teac A-H500 system and I absolutely love them... That being said I'm not sure what the sensitivity rating on them is, so I'm questioning if they'd be difficult to drive, and to be honest I'm not sure I want to pull them off my "everyday" system.  Then again, if these cabinets were to sing like I think they might on a decent tube setup I might not have a choice but to switch'em.  I've got a line on a cheap pair of KEF C85's that I might pickup just because of the price so I have something to mess around with.  From there I'll have to go audition some other cabinets as it's been a while since I've done that...  (oh and the proposed listening area is probably only 10'x10')

Here's a pic of the latest nixie clock I made up.  I don't have pic's of the last one as I made it for my Dad and never snapped pics before I gave it to him...
This is using russian IN-14 tubes.



D

[DaveC113]

I've been enjoying my SET and Omega single driver speakers. I built a Tubelab Simple SE:

http://www.tubelab.com/Simple_SE.htm

There is a tubelab forum on diyaudio so if you have any questions or problems you can get help quickly. I spent about $1k building it with high end parts, it is a great amp.

The Omega speakers are a great value for the money and work great with SET amps. I have the Super 5 XRS. Omega just released a new 4.5" driver that is really, really good. Their Alnico driver models are great too, but might be optimal with a bit more power, best to talk to Louis (the owner) if you are interested in learning more. Also, the Omega forum here on AC...

http://omegaloudspeakers.com/products/super5series#xrs

[Ericus Rex]

Here's one for sale here that would be tough to beat at asking price.  Is Wisconsin close by?

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=108312.0


You could also find an integrated with phono.  I personally can't think of one for under $1k.  Slightly over is a Rogue Cronus or early Rogue Tempest (the Tempest may not come with optional phono board, the Cronus comes with MM phono stage standard).  If you change your mind and decide to go with seperates you surely can find a used amp/pre pair with phono.  There's a Rogue 88/66 pair here on AC (sorry, I seem to only come up with Rogue options today).

The Mesa Tigris in the trading post looks great too but I don't think it has phono section and it's out of your budget.

[DaveC113]

Here's one for sale here that would be tough to beat at asking price.  Is Wisconsin close by?

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=108312.0

That's a great deal, especially with 4 quads of power tubes included. It would work better than a SET for less efficient speakers too.

[Menace]

Here's one for sale here that would be tough to beat at asking price.  Is Wisconsin close by?

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=108312.0


You could also find an integrated with phono.  I personally can't think of one for under $1k.  Slightly over is a Rogue Cronus or early Rogue Tempest (the Tempest may not come with optional phono board, the Cronus comes with MM phono stage standard).  If you change your mind and decide to go with seperates you surely can find a used amp/pre pair with phono.  There's a Rogue 88/66 pair here on AC (sorry, I seem to only come up with Rogue options today).

The Mesa Tigris in the trading post looks great too but I don't think it has phono section and it's out of your budget.

That SFC-1 is a good deal with all the tubes that it comes with!  If I had only started my search a month ago, as I was down in Chicago a few weeks back I could have picked that up.  I'm not too worried about finding an integrated w/ MM phono input as I've seen a couple of separate phono pre's (DIY and pre-built) that I'd like to try out. 

I'm waiting to hear back on another potential SP3, but any other suggestions will be welcomed!

D

[Menace]

Well, I pulled the trigger on a SP3 from a member here on AC... hope to have it in a week or so.  Let the fun, or insanity depending on who's asking, begin! LOL.

Thanks for everyone's input.  I'm sure I'll be doing a bunch of reading and asking questions once I start messing around with this thing.

D

[Tyson]

IMO, no question - build!  There's a level or satisfaction you get that cannot be replicated by just buying prebuilt stuff.  Of course you have to make sure you don't kill yourself.  Take proper precautions and you'll be fine.

[woofersus]

Well, I pulled the trigger on a SP3 from a member here on AC... hope to have it in a week or so.  Let the fun, or insanity depending on who's asking, begin! LOL.

Thanks for everyone's input.  I'm sure I'll be doing a bunch of reading and asking questions once I start messing around with this thing.

D

An SP3 is a great choice for a first foray into tubes.  Not only does it sound pretty great for the price IMHO, it uses tubes that aren't horrifically expensive to roll and you can experiment there too.  Plus, if you decide it just isn't for you, you should be able to get 90% of your money back when you sell it to somebody else.