[WGH]

And then there is always beryllium. I usually room hop at RMAF but this year I stayed the longest at the room with the TAD CR1's, even though loud the sound never was harsh and everyone wanted to hear more and more, nobody left their seats.



http://tad-labs.com/en/consumer/cr1/technology.html

Wayne

[Redefy Audio]

i was trying to check those TADs, but never get the chance.

i was very impressed with dynaudio temptation on recent hifi show in my area. Sounds effortless and plays music.

cheers
henry

[standub]

One listens to a "system" rather individual drivers (hopefully! ).

[DS-21]

For all the poly-bashing, I have to say that the some of the most chameleon-like mids I've heard (lush when the recording is lush, light and "fast" when that's what's encoded on the source material, harsh when that's what's on the file, etc.) come from speakers that don't just have poly midranges, but twelve inch poly cones for midrange!. (Crossed over to an aluminum dome tweeter that's either 1.5" or 1.25" , with constrained directivity at ~1.4kHz.)  Of course, there are a lot of factors beyond cone material that go into that. Tannoy's engineers know what they're doing.

Of smaller drivers, the ones that I've liked the best are the aforementioned aerogel Audax HM130Z0 (a long out-of-production driver some East Asian company should really clone and get back out there), the coated fiberglass ScanSpeak 10F, the Kevlar 5" JBL midrange in the LSR32 midfield monitor, the titanium 5" inverted dome on the big Revels, the and the current versions of the KEF Uni-Q.

[Chops]

I have found that paper cones are generally the easiest to get a "pleasant" sound from with simpler enclosure and crossover designs. When you start getting into more exotic cone materials, generally the more complex the enclosures become and even more so with the crossovers. That doesn't makes these drivers any worse than others, just that they need more attention when it comes to implementation.

And keep in mind, a lot of what you're hearing with high end speakers are more of the voicing of them rather than the cone materials. A lot of these brands tend to have their own "house" sound that they incorporate into most of their speakers.

In the end, I do tend to lean more towards paper and/or organic cone materials myself. Beyond that, it would be planar and electrostatic speakers.

[Æ]

When you start getting into more exotic cone materials, generally the more complex the enclosures becomes.

Bogus, bogus, bogus. Since when does an exotic cone material need a complex or sophisticated enclosure? Thiele/Small parameters apply equally well in either circumstance. Designers may employ sophisticated enclosures to heighten the sales appeal (increase the hype) but certainly don't need to! Don't forget that the OP was asking specifically about midrange drivers. Since when does a midrange driver need a sophisticated enclosure?

Beyond that, it would be planar and electrostatic speakers.

Yes, they always do sound wonderful.

[Chops]

Bogus, bogus, bogus. Since when does an exotic cone material need a complex or sophisticated enclosure? Thiele/Small parameters apply equally well in either circumstance. Designers may employ sophisticated enclosures to heighten the sales appeal (increase the hype) but certainly don't need to! Don't forget that the OP was asking specifically about midrange drivers. Since when does a midrange driver need a sophisticated enclosure?

Yes, they always do sound wonderful.

You don't have to be so nasty about it... True, it's not something needed per say, but they do do it, even for midrange units. A perfect example is the B&W Nautilus series with their bowling ball midrange enclosures. Some even go to the extremes of extravagant driver mounting techniques, though most of that is from the "elite" DIY crowd. And the more boutique driver, the more extravagant the enclosure is likely to be, needed or not. Like you said, increasing the hype.

That being said, I can see reasons to go a bit extreme with a midrange enclosure as far as trying to eliminate most if not all of the internal reflections getting back to the rear of the driver. Something a little more than just an empty square box to house the driver in.


As for planar and ES speakers, I've already had a pair of Maggies years ago and loved them, but they were power hungry. Next time around will probably be a pair of Martin Logan, the CLS maybe! Slowly but surely, I'll work my way up to a pair of Quad ESL-63's or maybe 989's.

[Æ]

That being said, I can see reasons to go a bit extreme with a midrange enclosure as far as trying to eliminate most if not all of the internal reflections getting back to the rear of the driver. Something a little more than just an empty square box to house the driver in.

If you would like to learn more about midrange enclosures, I have a nice two part semi-technical series of articles that appeared in Speaker Builder magazine by Jim Moriyasu. I'm pretty sure it is copyrighted, so I cannot just post it here for everyone to look at, but I could send you the copies (pdf). PM me with an email address if you are interested.

[Chops]

If you would like to learn more about midrange enclosures, I have a nice two part semi-technical series of articles that appeared in Speaker Builder magazine by Jim Moriyasu. I'm pretty sure it is copyrighted, so I cannot just post it here for everyone to look at, but I could send you the copies (pdf). PM me with an email address if you are interested.

Sounds interesting... PM headed your way shortly. 

[spinner]

 I have a cylinder shaped mid enclosure filled with a fiber damping material. This works very well with the 5" driver ....

[Æ]

I have a cylinder shaped mid enclosure filled with a fiber damping material. This works very well with the 5" driver ....

Yes, that is one of the favorites. Moriyasu determined that shape wasn't as important as size.

[chrisby]

I'm a DIYer and that would be a lot of work. Besides it isn't very often that one manufacturer makes a series of nearly identical drivers out of three different cone materials. My experience with drivers is: If they sound the same, they measure the same. And if they measure the same, they sound the same.

Well, a bit late to the party, but I can think of one small manufacturer of drivers targeted to the DIY who makes versions of the same driver from at 2 different materials - Mark Fenlon - specifically the Alpair 6 in paper and metal.

I've heard both and while the metal may be more precisely detailed (and have measurements to prove it - not that I personally care much about that part) I definitely prefer the paper for its more "organic" texture, and an ineffable "relaxed" quality.

There is a pair of kissin cousins in a larger size - Alpair7.3 (metal) and CSS EL70 (paper), which I've also heard extensively, and to which I have much the same subjective impressions. 

Mark is also developing a paper version of his currently largest size 12 cm

It's been rather a long time since I listened extensively to a poly (as opposed to woven fibre of any type ), the most recent being the TB W5-1611, which has very decent bass for its size, and during my listening few sins of commission, but overall and it simply didn't have the level of inner (micro) detail and texture nor extended HF response of say a Fostex FF165WK, or the Alpair12 metal 

[Æ]

Well, a bit late to the party, but I can think of one small manufacturer of drivers targeted to the DIY who makes versions of the same driver from at 2 different materials - Mark Fenlon - specifically the Alpair 6 in paper and metal.

Yeah, I prefer paper too, easier to chew.

[Letitroll98]

Well, a bit late to the party, but I can think of one small manufacturer of drivers targeted to the DIY who makes versions of the same driver from at 2 different materials - Mark Fenlon - specifically the Alpair 6 in paper and metal.

I've heard both and while the metal may be more precisely detailed (and have measurements to prove it - not that I personally care much about that part) I definitely prefer the paper for its more "organic" texture, and an ineffable "relaxed" quality.

There is no late on forums.  Anyway, very interesting, I hadn't thought about a mfg'r making the same driver in two (or more) materials.  I naturally thought that there would be too many design considerations for that to be feasible.  Do you know if there are any compensations in the suspension, or does he get the cones to the same mass? 

[James Romeyn]

Consistently, I noticed that plasma/flame tweeters sound a little "hot" (get it?) 

Anyway, there may be exceptions to the following but none I'm aware of:

The best thing about WCF (woven carbon fiber) cones is that they may be the most highly self-damped of any cone material.  They roll off on top very slow and smoothly, sound sweet, easy on the ears, and lack any peakiness.  Many if not all speakers touting direct-coupled midbass drivers (no low-pass crossover) employ WCF cones. 

Conversely, the worst thing about WCF cones is that they are the most highly self-damped of any cone material.  They sound kind of dead dynamically, and lack musical drama and life.  They sound soft and boring compared to other more lively cone materials, especially in transit response.

[spinner]

 Just swapped my poly cone jbl 104 mids for the older LE5 paper jobs. So far things are a more articulate and seem a bit faster. I will know more as the new cone kits break in .....

[jackman]

Just swapped my poly cone jbl 104 mids for the older LE5 paper jobs. So far things are a more articulate and seem a bit faster. I will know more as the new cone kits break in .....

I have Seas mag drivers and have no doubt a swap to paper, poly or aluminum would change the sound.  I also have no doubt the crossover would have to be adjusted or completely re-done to account for the parameters of the new drivers.  I don't think you can just swap things out without accounting for driver differences and necessary crossover changes, even if the drivers are from the same manufacturer.  Any differences you hear in your test are probably meaningless with regard to cone material sonic differences. 

[redbook]

 Jbl has a lot of  flexibility in these cases. These particular drivers  cover identical t frequency bands.{ 900-4000 cps.} I did the same change awhile back with the same effect. Besides different material the 104 is ceramic mag and the le5 is alnico. I believe this is factor in the overall result.

[mclsound]

I do love my ATC mids

[redbook]

  Yes , those are terrific mids and worth every penny...........