Recommend a truly balanced pre or buffer

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Levi

Re: Recommend a truly balanced pre or buffer
« Reply #40 on: 11 Apr 2011, 01:51 pm »
I would certainly try the BAT VK-51SE.  It is dual-mono and fully balanced configuration.  It is open sounding and has excellent software for matching gain between devices.  I see them going as low as $3900 in agon. 

HT cOz

Re: Recommend a truly balanced pre or buffer
« Reply #41 on: 16 Apr 2011, 12:23 pm »
What about an Audio gd C39?  I know it's not a tube pre but it is certainly balanced and has a remote. It's built like a tank!  http://www.audio-gd.com/Pro/pre/C39/C39MK3EN.htm

jtwrace

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Re: Recommend a truly balanced pre or buffer
« Reply #42 on: 20 Jul 2011, 12:01 am »
anyone have any more ideas? 

Two outputs, One Input and remote volume a must.

bladesmith

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Re: Recommend a truly balanced pre or buffer
« Reply #43 on: 20 Jul 2011, 01:44 am »
anyone have any more ideas? 

Two outputs, One Input and remote volume a must.

x2...

dcktr

Re: Recommend a truly balanced pre or buffer
« Reply #44 on: 20 Jul 2011, 04:22 am »
Try Space-Tech labs. Just tell Albert what you want and he will build it. Everything is point to point wired. If you love to tube roll, lots of options that you can try with no bias adjustments.
I have his balanced pre and a balanced buffer (and the vp 105 push pull amp) His stuff is ++++. Will occasionally see used on Agon or Canuck audio mart. They do not have great resale value because they reach a small market and Albert does not advertise. I have the Buf-102 http://www.space-tech-lab.com/BufferPage.html
Lot of choices on the pre-amp pages.
If I can be of any help, do not hesitate to message me.
Ron

jtwrace

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Re: Recommend a truly balanced pre or buffer
« Reply #45 on: 20 Jul 2011, 04:31 pm »
Try Space-Tech labs.
Ron

Thanks.  I sent Albert an email...

jtwrace

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Re: Recommend a truly balanced pre or buffer
« Reply #46 on: 20 Jul 2011, 05:29 pm »
Anyone have any experience with this?

http://www.audio-horizons.com/pages/pre.html

launche

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Re: Recommend a truly balanced pre or buffer
« Reply #47 on: 20 Jul 2011, 06:54 pm »
You've got nothing to lose, well maybe $25 shipping.

From Audio Horizon:
"We therefore offer everyone who qualifies a free home audition. We’ll even pay the freight to you."

avahifi

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Re: Recommend a truly balanced pre or buffer
« Reply #48 on: 20 Jul 2011, 08:40 pm »
As I understand it, a "truly balanced" component would have four separate amplification circuits inside: Left plus and left minus, and right plus and right minus.

If you started out at the output of a good digital board that supplied these four separate feeds, and then stayed fully balanced from the DAC filters and outputs, through the preamp, and finally through a power amp, all with separate audio channels plus and minus for each of the four signals, and finally combined the signals at the speakers, you would actually have a useful balanced line system.  All common mode distortion would sum out of phase and cancel at the speakers. This would include distortion that the electronics designer did not know existed in the first place.

Of course this will cost about twice as much as a two channel system of the same design.  The musical performance gained by this significant extra cost will vary depending upon how much distortion was there to cancel in the first place.  With so-so electronics, the improvements would be substantial, with really well done electronics, the improvements probably will not be cost effective.

We have tried this here in house with interesting results.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

Quiet Earth

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Re: Recommend a truly balanced pre or buffer
« Reply #49 on: 20 Jul 2011, 10:07 pm »

jtwrace

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Re: Recommend a truly balanced pre or buffer
« Reply #50 on: 22 Jul 2011, 09:31 pm »
I'm one step closer Dude.   :wink:

Quiet Earth

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Re: Recommend a truly balanced pre or buffer
« Reply #51 on: 22 Jul 2011, 10:10 pm »





Dude!  .........   :green:

jtwrace

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Re: Recommend a truly balanced pre or buffer
« Reply #52 on: 23 Jul 2011, 12:13 am »
That's pretty funny!   :lol:

jtwrace

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Re: Recommend a truly balanced pre or buffer
« Reply #53 on: 28 Jul 2011, 07:22 pm »
I'm on the list for a TRL Dude....

atmasphere

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Re: Recommend a truly balanced pre or buffer
« Reply #54 on: 2 Aug 2011, 08:21 pm »
As I understand it, a "truly balanced" component would have four separate amplification circuits inside: Left plus and left minus, and right plus and right minus.

If you started out at the output of a good digital board that supplied these four separate feeds, and then stayed fully balanced from the DAC filters and outputs, through the preamp, and finally through a power amp, all with separate audio channels plus and minus for each of the four signals, and finally combined the signals at the speakers, you would actually have a useful balanced line system.  All common mode distortion would sum out of phase and cancel at the speakers. This would include distortion that the electronics designer did not know existed in the first place.

Of course this will cost about twice as much as a two channel system of the same design.  The musical performance gained by this significant extra cost will vary depending upon how much distortion was there to cancel in the first place.  With so-so electronics, the improvements would be substantial, with really well done electronics, the improvements probably will not be cost effective.

We have tried this here in house with interesting results.

Regards,

Frank Van Alstine

IMO you don't want 'four separate amplification circuits inside'; its nice to have the noninverted and inverted phases in one channel to be differential circuits- you get lower noise.

A phonograph cartridge is a good example of a balanced line source. What's nice about this is that you can operate balanced from the cartridge to the loudspeaker if you want. A LOMC cartridge with the typical low impedance load at the input of the preamp in conjunction with the balanced phono cable renders the cable free of any artifact- in this way an inexpensive cable will keep up with an expensive cable with no worries.

Regarding 'All common mode distortion would sum out of phase and cancel at the speakers', you get cancellation at each stage of gain, not just at the speakers; distortion does not compound through the circuit the way it does in single-ended circuits.

Finally, the cost is not double; that is however a persistent myth.