[werd]

Sound advice.
I'm with those who believe it is darn near impossible to achieve top quality sound without a properly set up room. For critical listening I'd bet $2k worth of gear would sound better in a properly treated room than $20k worth of gear in a poorly treated room.
As you stated you're not all that handy here's an excellent source of reasonably priced room treatments. http://atsacoustics.com/
I've ordered from them. The products are exactly as described.
Now if that is out of the question in you home then eclien's advice is definitely for you. A new transport or even amp ain't gonna get you there. Don't sweat it, just sit back, relax and enjoy the music.

All due respect but that is so far detached from the truth. I am not saying this as a discouragement towards room treatments but more a reality based statement on what people are led to expect. The room will sound tighter and if you dedicated it the room will sound flatten or can be tuned. This does not fix stereo gear. I liken it to taking a nice steamy stinky crap. You can aerosol it all you want but at the end of the day its only going smell like a flower took a shit. Will a 20k system sound better in a well thought out treated room than in a un-treated room ?.... probably. Will a 2k system sound better in a well thought out room than a well thought out 20k system at home in someone's basement.... no- where near it. The room treatments will not error correct lousy engineering. Infact i would say it would only make it easier to pinpoint.

[JLM]

A well designed room need not cost a boat load.  Having a large, properly proportioned, and dedicated room and correct speaker/listening position setup solves most of the room issues.  My room (in the basement werd, which is the best place for it) was the cheapest square footage in the house when we built 5 years ago.  The adjoining interior spaces are storage rooms, I installed an insulated fiberglass exterior door (with weather seals), and insulated flexible ductwork (I never hear the furnace).  When I first moved in, it was spooky quiet in there (so isolated from the world).  Just drywall walls/ceiling (should have suspended it but the builder refused) and commercial carpet with Cardas nearfield setup/room proportions.  Note that with large/whizzerless single driver speakers my six GIK panels do almost no good.  Bigger is always better, but at 8 ft x 13 ft x 21 ft its very OK.

My previous living room was almost the same size with hardwood floors and picture window, yet it sounded OK.  But having a dedicated room, where you can listen when, to what, and as loud as you'd like is very huge. 

I've heard horrible rooms.  One dealership I visited had an 11 ft cube with full height store front glass on one side.  Can you say "boom-boom"?  A few years ago I was listening at home to a xylophone on the then 2.1 HT system.  The performer rifted from one end to the other and the speakers localized the sound perfectly with great resolution until the image reached the CRT TV where is disintegrated into confusion only to fully "reappear" on the other side of the TV.  I've also been in three geodesic domes that sound really weird.  OK elsewhere in the dome, but standing in the middle causes severe reverb/resonance. 

So environment can have a major effect on sound.  I recommend the largest retangular private space you can find.  I've always lived in rather rural areas, so haven't been severely constrained by space issues.  But it amazes me the money some put into great equipment that goes into really crummy rooms.  As I posted above, that's where it makes sense to me to use headphones for serious listening and have a in-room option for casual listening.  You big city guys have lots of great shopping/networking resources, but us country kids have the space to do it right.

[timind]

All due respect but that is so far detached from the truth. I am not saying this as a discouragement towards room treatments but more a reality based statement on what people are led to expect. The room will sound tighter and if you dedicated it the room will sound flatten or can be tuned. This does not fix stereo gear. I liken it to taking a nice steamy stinky crap. You can aerosol it all you want but at the end of the day its only going smell like a flower took a shit. Will a 20k system sound better in a well thought out treated room than in a un-treated room ?.... probably. Will a 2k system sound better in a well thought out room than a well thought out 20k system at home in someone's basement.... no- where near it. The room treatments will not error correct lousy engineering. Infact i would say it would only make it easier to pinpoint.

Ok, maybe my figures ($2k) were a bit exaggerated, but I stand by the principle. If one is trying to get hi-end sound in a small listening room, like many of us do, without paying attention to speaker placement and room treatment, it just isn't going to happen. No matter how much money, or how well engineered the pieces are. If you disagree, I say to each his own.

[Mass. Wine Guy]

Great idea, and its cheaper.
When you've had a crappy day and get home and find you have the house to yourself what is the first album, type of music you want to hear immediately??

Probably some good acoustic guitar, Bluegrass or Blues.

[rollo]

  Today there are many Intergrated amps that perform close to or eqaul to separates. Saying that the Plinius just may be the ticket. a real nice synergy there.  Actually simplfies everything. Less cabling for starters. Takes up less room. Synergy is built in. Cost as well. Leaving some green for a CDP or room treatment.
  If I owned Quads I would look at Quad components first. Just makes sense. Have fun trying.


charles

[werd]

Ok, maybe my figures ($2k) were a bit exaggerated, but I stand by the principle. If one is trying to get hi-end sound in a small listening room, like many of us do, without paying attention to speaker placement and room treatment, it just isn't going to happen. No matter how much money, or how well engineered the pieces are. If you disagree, I say to each his own.

Oh i agree with speaker placement. Just turn your speakers around and face them into the wall for an exagerated eg. how bad it can be. you can botch a 20k system to a low lifeless turd pretty fast here. I was just talking about actively tuning your room and tightening it up, it can be worthwhile but very often its just not possible due to factors above. It will tighten your room up but it doesn't fix lousy source gear or other issues revolving around lousy AC delivery and power. It just doesn't.

[saisunil]

I'd definitely look at Grant Fidelity stuff - especially their Rita integrated and they have several other good choices ...
http://shop.grantfidelity.com/Integrated-Amplifiers/

[eclein]

MWG--way back when you were starting out you were looking at amps and stuff....I still think if your going to change stuff, look at the Virtue Audio gear. Your wife can pick out the color scheme and they are absolutely audiophile quality, they are made incredibly well and sound excellent...I have a Virtue TWO.2 amp and Piano CD player but if you went with the M?? or Sensation integrated and a Piano CD Player I really think all this kind of music you really like would shine....
website:  http://store.virtueaudio.com/


 My Piano M1 CD Player

[eclein]

saisunil--I have an I-12 at the top of my wish list...it will happen....oops off topic

[srb]

MWG, judging by the favorable reviews and reports I would think that your (capable) Arte Forma is not the problem and changing to another amplifier would not effect a big change in sound.
 
As others have offered, I think it has a lot to do with speakers and room.  When the Quad was suggested as one possible speaker to replace the tiny Minuets, that was in the context of $300 - $400 used speakers with larger woofers.  It's possible that their tonal qualities are not your cup of tea.
 
I do know that I have changed amplifiers with a corresponding change in sound quality, but not as much in tonality.  Among the 6 pairs of speakers I own, even though each manufacturer claims that their speaker represents accurate sound, they all sound different from one another, with the differences being greater than the differences between sources, amplifiers and DACs that I have had.
 
Steve

[Mass. Wine Guy]

Yes, Steve. I've thought about that. The Quads sound good, just much more laid back (recessed?) than the Minuets. I hear and read good things about Monitor Audio. I'm also very curious in the Musical Fidelity A 3.5 amp.

[wushuliu]

I sympathize with you MWG. Even though I mostly DIY, if most folks knew the degree to which I have swapped out different gear (and the money spent) over the past 4 years they would say I'm probably going about it the wrong way. But somewhere in my brain there's this particular 'sound' I've been looking for or expecting from good gear and even if what I had at the moment sounded great, there was something missing but I just couldn't put my finger on it. Eventually I found what I was looking/listening for but man I went through a lot of stuff. The other tough part is as helpful as it can be to get others' opinions on gear, many times I also benefitted from just going with my gut... there's a balance to be struck there.

[werd]

^^^^^^

Thats a great post.

[Mass. Wine Guy]

I think that I could stand to upgrade my Arcam CD72. These are for sale:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=93409.0

http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?dgtlplay&1307913551&/Usher-CD--7

Are these good players? Are both or either an improvement over my Arcam?

Thanks very much.

[Afterimage]

It has got to be the room.  I was, and still am an audio idiot always trying gear, but one thing I have learned is the room is half of the equation.  I have two systems.  One in poor room and one in a very good room for acoustics.  I can drop less expensive gear and not pay attention to cables or anything and the system in that room will sound great.  On the other hand, in the poor room, I have pay close attention to everything.  I will get it treated, just haven't done it yet.  So yeah Mass Wine Guy, if you haven't already look into room treatments, you will be surprised at how good your system can sound.