AudiophileLiquidator.net ?

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doug s.

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Re: AudiophileLiquidator.net ?
« Reply #60 on: 3 Mar 2010, 12:51 pm »
I purchased a 4B-SST2 and another component from an authorised dealer in my area with a reasonable discount last year and paid cash. When I went to pick up the amplifier the dealer loaded it into the back of my vehicle and twisted the box in a peculiar way as I was approaching from the opposite side. When I got home and unloaded the unit there was a hole in the box large enough to see the component inside!  :o

I immediately went back to the store and had them partially open the box to inspect for damage, fortunately none found. Due to this incident, I will not do business with them again, and have purchased several other Bryston items from another local dealer since, albeit with lesser discounts.
did the first dealer do anything wrong that they didn't rectify?  jeez, everyone screws up once in a while.  (except you, i guess?)    :scratch:  it's how folks handle when they make mistakes, that's really important, imo.

ymmv,

doug s.

95Dyna

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Re: AudiophileLiquidator.net ?
« Reply #61 on: 3 Mar 2010, 02:41 pm »
Here's my problem.  As a customer, I have a responsiblity to my brick and mortar authorized bryston dealer which is to pay full price so that they can pay for all the overhead.  And that full markup is not small.  Often around 40%. 

BUT, the dealer has a responsiblity to EARN the markup.  He must supply a demo room with a reasonable selection of 2 channel bryston gear.  He must be friendly and glad to have me visit and demo the product more than once.  He must be knowledgable on the products and provide advice.  He must offer setup and installation advice. 

Now, there's a bunch of dealers out there that offer none of those services.  They are home theater installation specialists and they know little about 2 channel and treat 2 channel customer's like an annoyance.  They have no 2 channel gear to demo.  BUT, they will take my order and charge full markup.  So how about a little indignation and contempt for those dealers?  They aren't hard to find.

My sentiments exactly, jaxwired.  I live centrally located between Washington D.C., Baltimore, Philadelphia, Eastern PA an all of New Jersey and Delaware and there was not one Bryston dealer in that entire densely populated area that had anything greater than a 4B in the showroom when I was shopping for 7B's and BP26 last year.  I actually had the argument you are presenting with one of them that quoted me full list price after talking to him on the phone for 10 min. then he asked if I would like to place my order.  I decided the heck with it, I'm going to buy from the authorized dealer that spends the most time answering my questions and provides pricing comensurate with the value he was providing me.  That dealer ended up being all the way down in San Antonio.  Same problem with my Esoteric X-05 and now I'm running into the same problem trying to buy a VPI Classic TT.  You guys who can go from one dealer to the next in the same area and see all that you want to and take things home for a couple weeks are very fortunate.  I'd be more willing to pay closer to list price in that scenario.

1ZIP

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Re: AudiophileLiquidator.net ?
« Reply #62 on: 3 Mar 2010, 03:17 pm »
I guess an interesting question for James would be, "why aren't there more Bryston dealers"?  Given all the very positive reviews on a number of components over the last couple of years, one would think there would be more interest in representing Bryston.

You would think that in the PNW with a city the size of Seattle there would be at least one dealer in Seattle....but no!  Especially since the brand has so many associated positives.

jaxwired

Re: AudiophileLiquidator.net ?
« Reply #63 on: 3 Mar 2010, 03:23 pm »
I guess an interesting question for James would be, "why aren't there more Bryston dealers"?  Given all the very positive reviews on a number of components over the last couple of years, one would think there would be more interest in representing Bryston.

You would think that in the PNW with a city the size of Seattle there would be at least one dealer in Seattle....but no!  Especially since the brand has so many associated positives.

I can answer that one for you.  It's not Bryston, it's all high end 2 channel audio.  B&M 2 channel is dying or completely dead in most of the country.  The manufacturers are forced to used whatever retail venue is available.  That's probably why Bryston has autorized onlihne sales now...

1ZIP

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Re: AudiophileLiquidator.net ?
« Reply #64 on: 3 Mar 2010, 05:05 pm »
I'm sure that's part of it.

 I know you can obtain Bryston through Audio Advisor, but I'm not aware of any other authorized online dealer.

James Tanner

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Re: AudiophileLiquidator.net ?
« Reply #65 on: 3 Mar 2010, 05:06 pm »
I'm sure that's part of it.

 I know you can obtain Bryston through Audio Advisor, but I'm not aware of any other authorized online dealer.

Audio Advisor is our 'ONLY' online authorized dealer and only in the USA.

james

ralph1950

Re: AudiophileLiquidator.net ?
« Reply #66 on: 3 Mar 2010, 08:25 pm »
Sounds like that one poster is from the discount web seller!   :duh:

SHV

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Re: AudiophileLiquidator.net ?
« Reply #67 on: 3 Mar 2010, 08:44 pm »
Audio Advisor is our 'ONLY' online authorized dealer and only in the USA.

james

That is good to know....I saw Bryston in their catalog and wasn't sure if they qualified under the current warranty "rules".

Steve

Stu Pitt

Re: AudiophileLiquidator.net ?
« Reply #68 on: 4 Mar 2010, 01:18 am »
I guess an interesting question for James would be, "why aren't there more Bryston dealers"?  Given all the very positive reviews on a number of components over the last couple of years, one would think there would be more interest in representing Bryston.

You would think that in the PNW with a city the size of Seattle there would be at least one dealer in Seattle....but no!  Especially since the brand has so many associated positives.

I think a big part of it is what they're currently selling.  Bryston may take away from sales of more expensive items.  Every business has to make money.

I know a former Bryston dealer that took on the Rotel line and said he had too many customers buy Rotel over Bryston because they thought it was a better value. He properly demoed the gear and explained everything involved with owning Bryston, but people stopped buying it.

That shop's no longer in business for other reasons - the owners also sold pianos and had no interest in promoting the stereo side of the business.  Its too bad too, because the guy running the stereo side was the type of guy that everyone should have access to.

Phil A

Re: AudiophileLiquidator.net ?
« Reply #69 on: 4 Mar 2010, 02:32 am »
My sentiments exactly, jaxwired.  I live centrally located between Washington D.C., Baltimore, Philadelphia, Eastern PA an all of New Jersey and Delaware and there was not one Bryston dealer in that entire densely populated area that had anything greater than a 4B in the showroom when I was shopping for 7B's and BP26 last year.  I actually had the argument you are presenting with one of them that quoted me full list price after talking to him on the phone for 10 min. then he asked if I would like to place my order.  I decided the heck with it, I'm going to buy from the authorized dealer that spends the most time answering my questions and provides pricing comensurate with the value he was providing me.  That dealer ended up being all the way down in San Antonio.  Same problem with my Esoteric X-05 and now I'm running into the same problem trying to buy a VPI Classic TT.  You guys who can go from one dealer to the next in the same area and see all that you want to and take things home for a couple weeks are very fortunate.  I'd be more willing to pay closer to list price in that scenario.

That's one of the reasons when I bought my 6BSST and then shortly after my 14BSST about 6 yrs. back.  I was going to get some discount on the 14BSST new but I bought just under a year old for lots less.  I've told dealers that I'm a customer and not a guinea pig.  If they want my business, and I'm happy to listen and audition and buy if I like it, they can at least have one in the showroom.  I've been told by dealers they don't like the Bryston warranty and think that Bryston should only give the rest of the warranty on used stuff bought from an authorized dealer.

robb

Re: AudiophileLiquidator.net ?
« Reply #70 on: 4 Mar 2010, 03:24 am »
It would help in searching for authorized dealers if the Bryston list of dealers on their web page were regularly updated.  For example, I know of two Bryston dealers here in Texas that are not listed on the web page, and one dealer who is doesn't answer the phone.

SHV

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Re: AudiophileLiquidator.net ?
« Reply #71 on: 4 Mar 2010, 04:44 am »
It would help in searching for authorized dealers if the Bryston list of dealers on their web page were regularly updated.  For example, I know of two Bryston dealers here in Texas that are not listed on the web page, and one dealer who is doesn't answer the phone.

I just looked at the Bryston list.  I live in a neighboring state and the only Bryston "dealer" is a home entertainment installer located in a town of 12,000 people.  I looked at the dealer's web site and no brands are mentioned only their expertise in installing "solutions" is emphasized..  I wonder how many Bryston units they have sold?

Steve

James Tanner

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Re: AudiophileLiquidator.net ?
« Reply #72 on: 4 Mar 2010, 12:53 pm »
I just looked at the Bryston list.  I live in a neighboring state and the only Bryston "dealer" is a home entertainment installer located in a town of 12,000 people.  I looked at the dealer's web site and no brands are mentioned only their expertise in installing "solutions" is emphasized..  I wonder how many Bryston units they have sold?

Steve

Hi Guys,

We are revamping our website and will be checking these links and such.  Any input you can provide would be appreciated - email me at jamestanner@bryston.com

james

Johnny2Bad

Re: AudiophileLiquidator.net ?
« Reply #73 on: 7 Mar 2010, 01:50 pm »
My experience with [some online company] has been very positive.  I've ordered a number of items from them ranging from amps, multi-zone amps, controllers, and speakers.  Everything has been shipped in a timely fashion and has arrived in perfect condition. 

I'm saving as much as 50% off of the vastly over priced, and price-fixed MSRP of many of the manufacturers who don't understand the free market.  [some online company] does match the manufacturers warranty.  Even if this turns out to not be true, I'VE SAVED 50%.  On the off-chance I do have infant mortality on the product *and* they don't honor their warranty, I can just buy another one.

It's your money, if you want to spend more than you need to to get exactly the same product feel free.
Although somewhat recent as far as high end audio goes, these kinds of companies have been around a long, long time ... infamously as high end camera dealers for at least 40 years. The internet changed the game somewhat, but the model is pretty simple. Advertise stuff people want to buy, try to get it once they order but if not, stall and hold the money for as long as possible. Initially, they sell stuff they actually have, to build reputation, before moving on to listing whatever seems popular.
There was a site at one time where a guy went out and photographed the addresses listed for a similar deal, except they were selling video camcorders cheap, about five years ago when they were hot items. Single doors in alleys, barber shops, confectionaries, and a few very shady looking warehouses were typical. I don't have a link, if the site is even up now, but it had quite a few page hits at the time.
I quoted the post above, because it gives you most of the information you need to avoid these "businesses" in the future ... don't for a moment think that they won't spawn anew when another relatively expensive, popular item takes the public's fancy. It's rule number one.
These guys spend a great deal of time online, Googling their company name, and responding vigorously and often wallpapering a site (fake "real" people in large numbers) with reviews and comments, which of course are always positive to the extreme. That's why it didn't take long for the above post to show up here ... it's a job requirement and they recruit others to do it on a part time basis as well. In essence, it's a full time job; one imagines they spend more time "fixing" the reputation than actually shipping products.
Note that the poster doesn't mention anything specific. No brand names, no model numbers, not even a very specific product category. There is no personal experience with the product in the post ... nothing. Real consumers do mention things like that when they do an online review.
I like the end where he makes a play on someone's greed, by suggesting you could just buy another at half price if anything goes wrong. Of course, that begs the question ... from whom?
There is no reason to believe your CC info is safe with such a vendor.
Broadly speaking these guys are most often found on the "review" sites that populate the 'net; the ones that list the "best prices" for a specific item searched. This is where these guys hang out, and they spend a great deal of time countering bad feedback with fake, "five star" feedback, much of which reads like the quote above, if you consider the hints I provided in deciphering them.
Occasionally the reputation becomes un-repairable, usually from a blog site that gets Dugg or the attention of Consumerist dotcom, and they simply whip up a new website, change the name, and carry on. That's why they are difficult to stop. Institutions like the NY Attorney General have plenty of complaints about them, but it takes time and "noise" (ie many consumer complaints) to bring a given firm to the top of the investigative heap. It's still, as always, "buyer beware".
Which brings us to the final conclusion; Bryston (and firms like Bryston) not only supports their authorized dealers, they support the customers who buy from those dealers. If a dealer truly wrongs a customer, they are willing to intervene and if necessary, make it right. Anyone who's ever had problems with a consumer item that seemed un-resolvable, will know the value of that immediately.
As for calls to change the topic, I am against it. I say leave it as it is ... it's threads like this that are the way these guys do get shut down, by consumers who become aware of the whole deal. Let Google do what Google does best, and people who have never visited this site before may learn something that will save them a lot of grief in the future.


Phil A

Re: AudiophileLiquidator.net ?
« Reply #74 on: 7 Mar 2010, 03:16 pm »
My sentiments exactly, jaxwired.  I live centrally located between Washington D.C., Baltimore, Philadelphia, Eastern PA an all of New Jersey and Delaware and there was not one Bryston dealer in that entire densely populated area that had anything greater than a 4B in the showroom when I was shopping for 7B's and BP26 last year.  I actually had the argument you are presenting with one of them that quoted me full list price after talking to him on the phone for 10 min. then he asked if I would like to place my order.  I decided the heck with it, I'm going to buy from the authorized dealer that spends the most time answering my questions and provides pricing comensurate with the value he was providing me.  That dealer ended up being all the way down in San Antonio.  Same problem with my Esoteric X-05 and now I'm running into the same problem trying to buy a VPI Classic TT.  You guys who can go from one dealer to the next in the same area and see all that you want to and take things home for a couple weeks are very fortunate.  I'd be more willing to pay closer to list price in that scenario.


Some manufacturers (like Thiel) provide not only a list of dealers but where particular models can be auditioned.  While it probably isn't 100% accurate (and I'm sure it is a pain for the manufacturer), it does help as a starting point sometimes.  When you're in the market to buy something, any information that helps you figure out what you can audition in a particular place is a plus (you can sometimes plan a day of listening and going to different dealers).

vegasdave

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Re: AudiophileLiquidator.net ?
« Reply #75 on: 7 Mar 2010, 08:40 pm »
Although somewhat recent as far as high end audio goes, these kinds of companies have been around a long, long time ... infamously as high end camera dealers for at least 40 years. The internet changed the game somewhat, but the model is pretty simple. Advertise stuff people want to buy, try to get it once they order but if not, stall and hold the money for as long as possible. Initially, they sell stuff they actually have, to build reputation, before moving on to listing whatever seems popular.
There was a site at one time where a guy went out and photographed the addresses listed for a similar deal, except they were selling video camcorders cheap, about five years ago when they were hot items. Single doors in alleys, barber shops, confectionaries, and a few very shady looking warehouses were typical. I don't have a link, if the site is even up now, but it had quite a few page hits at the time.
I quoted the post above, because it gives you most of the information you need to avoid these "businesses" in the future ... don't for a moment think that they won't spawn anew when another relatively expensive, popular item takes the public's fancy. It's rule number one.
These guys spend a great deal of time online, Googling their company name, and responding vigorously and often wallpapering a site (fake "real" people in large numbers) with reviews and comments, which of course are always positive to the extreme. That's why it didn't take long for the above post to show up here ... it's a job requirement and they recruit others to do it on a part time basis as well. In essence, it's a full time job; one imagines they spend more time "fixing" the reputation than actually shipping products.
Note that the poster doesn't mention anything specific. No brand names, no model numbers, not even a very specific product category. There is no personal experience with the product in the post ... nothing. Real consumers do mention things like that when they do an online review.
I like the end where he makes a play on someone's greed, by suggesting you could just buy another at half price if anything goes wrong. Of course, that begs the question ... from whom?
There is no reason to believe your CC info is safe with such a vendor.
Broadly speaking these guys are most often found on the "review" sites that populate the 'net; the ones that list the "best prices" for a specific item searched. This is where these guys hang out, and they spend a great deal of time countering bad feedback with fake, "five star" feedback, much of which reads like the quote above, if you consider the hints I provided in deciphering them.
Occasionally the reputation becomes un-repairable, usually from a blog site that gets Dugg or the attention of Consumerist dotcom, and they simply whip up a new website, change the name, and carry on. That's why they are difficult to stop. Institutions like the NY Attorney General have plenty of complaints about them, but it takes time and "noise" (ie many consumer complaints) to bring a given firm to the top of the investigative heap. It's still, as always, "buyer beware".
Which brings us to the final conclusion; Bryston (and firms like Bryston) not only supports their authorized dealers, they support the customers who buy from those dealers. If a dealer truly wrongs a customer, they are willing to intervene and if necessary, make it right. Anyone who's ever had problems with a consumer item that seemed un-resolvable, will know the value of that immediately.
As for calls to change the topic, I am against it. I say leave it as it is ... it's threads like this that are the way these guys do get shut down, by consumers who become aware of the whole deal. Let Google do what Google does best, and people who have never visited this site before may learn something that will save them a lot of grief in the future.



I agree, but where do they get Bryston equipment is the question!

James Tanner

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Re: AudiophileLiquidator.net ?
« Reply #76 on: 7 Mar 2010, 09:03 pm »
^^^ 
Hi dave,

They don't - but they just say they can.  I had a situation about 2 weeks ago where a customer purchased an Amplifier and a Torus and after waiting 6 weeks called me to complain about poor delivery.  I explained that we had no record of an order for that specific combination and normally at worst it would be 2 weeks.

He called the interent dealer he ordered it from and the dealer changed him a 15% restocking charge because he said he had to cancel the order and that was the penalty.  He is fighting it of course and said he would let me know the outcome.

james

vegasdave

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Re: AudiophileLiquidator.net ?
« Reply #77 on: 7 Mar 2010, 09:05 pm »
Oh, I see. I think that says it all!