looking for small, high db, high WAF monitors ?

ajayrav · « **Reply #40 on:** 22 May 2008, 05:20 pm »

Another plug for the ACI Sapphire XLs. I LOVE mine. Get the dedicated stands though, they make a difference!

griller · « **Reply #41 on:** 22 May 2008, 07:57 pm »

I've seen XLs on the factory B-stock page in your price range. And those have full warranty and money back guarantee, something you're not going to get if you can find them second hand. PM ACI top gun Mike and see what he can do for you. They just ended a big sale not long ago. The XLs are one of the very rare audio purchases that haven't resulted in me wanted to upgrade 6 months later.

Randy · « **Reply #42 on:** 22 May 2008, 08:02 pm »

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"Another plug for the ACI Sapphire XLs." How efficient are these? The website does not provide that information. Remember he only has a 30 watt amp and when it clips, it is startling.

bpape · « **Reply #43 on:** 22 May 2008, 08:08 pm »

IIRC, the Sapphires are 86db 1w/1M

Bryan

ajayrav · « **Reply #44 on:** 22 May 2008, 08:21 pm »

Quote from: Randy on 22 May 2008, 08:02 pm

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"Another plug for the ACI Sapphire XLs." How effiecient are these? The website does not provide that information. Remember he only has a 30 watt amp and when it clips, it is startling.

The XLs are a fairly easy load to drive. If I recall correctly, Mike Dzurko used a 38 watt Primaluna Prologue 2 integrated tube amp to power them at RMAF a couple of years ago. Attendees raved about the sound (online audiophile blogs attested to this), so I assume it went plenty loud...

Plus, you can try it at home and send it back if it doesn't rock your world!

Bryan is close about the sensitivity. The ACI website states it is 85.5 dB/W/m.

http://www.audioc.com/speakers1/sapphirexl/sapphirexldetail.htm

Ajay

doug s. · « **Reply #45 on:** 23 May 2008, 03:11 am »

you need to hear a pair of proac tablette reference 8 signatures. these are quite costly new, considering their size, but not considering their performance. (i think they're now ~$2k, thanks to the weak dollar.) but, they sometimes show up used for ~$1200. but they sell almost immediately. these speakers really sound amazing, & tho only rated at 86db/1w, i have heard them driven by 25w in a ~14x22x10h room & they went plenty loud. only the most bombastic bass will faze them if driven loud, but if you use subs actively crossed over, then they can blast you out of the room -even a big room - with any music. and, they are truly tiny, & w/gorgeous finish...

http://www.proac-loudspeakers.com/tabref8sig.php

now, if you are on a budget, you can come close at far less cost w/a pair of usher s520's... also small, & nice looking.

http://www.usheraudio.com/speaker-S-520.html

doug s.

Robert57 · « **Reply #46 on:** 23 May 2008, 12:43 pm »

I'll add my plug for the Tyler Acoustics Linbrook Minis. For about $1200 new, these are superb, handsome speakers, and small enough to fit nicely in small spaces. Of course they need a sub for the two deepest octaves, as would any tiny speaker, but they go low enough, with good bass detail, to be plenty adequate for most music by themselves. They can also play loud if called for, and are easy to drive with only 50 SS watts. I use them in a large living room in a 2.1 HT system for WAF purposes and am constantly surprised how full and rich they sound for their diminutive size. Best of all, the top-notch Seas Millenium tweeter is wonderfully airy and life-like, without sounding rolled off or veiled, yet with no edginess or brightness. These are a fabulous bargain, and beautifully made for the money--perhaps voiced very slightly on the warm side, but with very accurate tonality. Last I looked, Tyler Acoustics does not show these as a current product, but I'm sure Ty would be happy to make up a pair on a custom basis. He is a pleasure to deal with.

Rob

Mariusz · « **Reply #47 on:** 1 Jun 2008, 10:03 pm »

These are the ones I have decided to get. AAD 2001 monitors that go down to around 30Hz. My dealer gave me a huge discount but they still are 30% over my original budget but what you get is almost full range speakers. I have completely fall in love with these (heard them ones or twice before) and IMO they kill M&D and Omega 3s which I also audition that day. Don't get me wrong......they are both great but not AADs. Retail on those is $2500, I got them for $1500 flat. AAD 2001 are fast, articulated with bass that is hard to believe can come out from such a small driver.......awesome.

http://www.aadsound.com/products/past%20model/2000%20Series.htm

Thanks everyone for your help & advice

JLM · « **Reply #48 on:** 2 Jun 2008, 11:21 am »

Those look very sweet! Phil Jones is well respected as a speaker designer, especially for monitors.

doug s. · « **Reply #49 on:** 2 Jun 2008, 02:37 pm »

yup, they look sweet. i'd like to hear aad's new 7001...

doug s.

Mariusz · « **Reply #50 on:** 2 Jun 2008, 04:03 pm »

7000 series looks awesome (a bit more pricey) and they go even deeper- around mid 20s or so. I don't want to blow my own horn but these AAD 2001s are something I can relate to soundwise as well as value and cosmetic wise. Bass is just unbelievable, you could swear that subwoofer is hidden somewhere in the room. Speed is another area where they excel - reminds me of my ML Aerius i which I still have but rarely use. Detail, ambient, weight and dynamics are all there, among other things like nice focus, timber and air. Basically everything you would like small monitors to do well is there. Db is around 86 but RWA is handling them very well. I thing adding Dodd will improve its performance even farther. I will bring these and Dodd (maybe RWA) to NY mini rave in June. If in NY area you are welcome to come and listen to this or my bigger system.

Cheers

tanchiro58 · « **Reply #51 on:** 2 Jun 2008, 04:20 pm »

Marius,

To me you just get a pair of VR1 (89dB/1w) then just replace the original wire with high quality wires like pure OFC or OCC and capacitors with Mundorf or Sonicap you will get a sound like a floorstanding ones (wih a good stands) or you can buy a pair of modified VR1 at RMA.

I also have a pair of Omega Hemptones with Skylan stands and did the replacement of a good high quality wires, padded the drivers (magnets and brackets) with black hole pads and add some wooden bars inside the cabinets to cancel out most of the vibration when I am listening to a loud volume. My Omega Hemptones sound like a big floorstanders with very balanced high, mid and low bass. Besides I do not need to have any subwoofers.

Good luck on your search,
Tan

modwright · « **Reply #52 on:** 2 Jun 2008, 04:49 pm »

This is Dan Wright from ModWright Instruments. I just had the extreme pleasure of using the Exodus Audio Kepler speakers in our exhibit room at VSAC 2008 in Vancouver, WA.

I have no financial interest in this speaker design or its recommendation. I just feel that it is the ideal recommendation for the original poster. The Kepler can be purchased as a kit for $600 ($700 w/finished enclosures) or, I believe $995 complete. These performed EXTREMELY well in a largish 22'x25' room (large for exhibit rooms) and I honestly didn't expect to have great bass extension. The speakers were driven with Class D amplification, tube preamp and digital source. The bass extension in room absolutely left one the impression that a sub HAD to be present!

More importantly, the overall presentation of the speaker, at low or high volumes, was completely coherent and balanced from top to bottom. It played all music with ease and extreme musicality.

They offered excellent off-axis response with a broad sweet spot and would be ideal in a family room where the luxury of a dedicated sound room and seating is not feasible

. I was simply stunned by how good these speakers were.

WAF is very high as can be seen at: http://www.diycable.com/main/default.php

I hope this helps you in your quest for the right monitor.

Sincerely,

Dan Wright
President, ModWright Instruments Inc.

RodMCV · « **Reply #53 on:** 2 Jun 2008, 05:04 pm »

Quote from: Mariusz on 2 Jun 2008, 04:03 pm

7000 series looks awesome (a bit more pricey) and they go even deeper- around mid 20s or so. I don't want to blow my own horn but these AAD 2001s are something I can relate to soundwise as well as value and cosmetic wise. Bass is just unbelievable, you could swear that subwoofer is hidden somewhere in the room. Speed is another area where they excel - reminds me of my ML Aerius i which I still have but rarely use. Detail, ambient, weight and dynamics are all there, among other things like nice focus, timber and air. Basically everything you would like small monitors to do well is there. Db is around 86 but RWA is handling them very well. I thing adding Dodd will improve its performance even farther. I will bring these and Dodd (maybe RWA) to NY mini rave in June. If in NY area you are welcome to come and listen to this or my bigger system.

Cheers

I've seen the 2001's on agon used, for not much less then your buy price; good for you.
Is that a wave guide , tweeter surround?
Did you get the funky factory stands?
A beautiful piece of wood and sound I'd guess.

Rod

Mariusz · « **Reply #54 on:** 2 Jun 2008, 06:22 pm »

Hi Rod,
tweeters I believe are horn-loaded ( not a true horn-design, minds you ) .

The cap over the tweeters is a dispersion piece that helps diffuse the sound if you will.

No, no funky stands. In fact, i will build my own adj. stands. I build my own Turntables (by my username is one example), stands ( for speakers and components) as well as other tweaks and so. But that is not importand. What is.......???? that AAD sound just the way I like it. And yes, I saw that pair on AgoN for $1500 but it was damaged badly on the back corner. Well for the money (1.5K) , I am not aware of the better sounding speaker....not that they do not exist...it is just that I have not heard it yet. I mean , with this kind of quality and bass extention.

Mariusz

Kevin Haskins · « **Reply #55 on:** 2 Jun 2008, 06:33 pm »

Quote from: modwright on 2 Jun 2008, 04:49 pm

This is Dan Wright from ModWright Instruments. I just had the extreme pleasure of using the Exodus Audio Kepler speakers in our exhibit room at VSAC 2008 in Vancouver, WA.

I have no financial interest in this speaker design or its recommendation. I just feel that it is the ideal recommendation for the original poster. The Kepler can be purchased as a kit for $600 ($700 w/finished enclosures) or, I believe $995 complete. These performed EXTREMELY well in a largish 22'x25' room (large for exhibit rooms) and I honestly didn't expect to have great bass extension. The speakers were driven with Class D amplification, tube preamp and digital source. The bass extension in room absolutely left one the impression that a sub HAD to be present!

More importantly, the overall presentation of the speaker, at low or high volumes, was completely coherent and balanced from top to bottom. It played all music with ease and extreme musicality.

They offered excellent off-axis response with a broad sweet spot and would be ideal in a family room where the luxury of a dedicated sound room and seating is not feasible . I was simply stunned by how good these speakers were.

WAF is very high as can be seen at: http://www.diycable.com/main/default.php

I hope this helps you in your quest for the right monitor.

Sincerely,

Dan Wright
President, ModWright Instruments Inc.

Hey.... thanks for the plug Dan! I'm glad you liked them. I'll trade you a set for the Transporter. aa

In terms of the post and bass response, there is ALWAYS a tradeoff being made with size, bandwidth and sensitivity. There is no free lunch so you make the best compromises you can with this type of loudspeaker. To get really deep bass response requires you sacrifice efficiency or box size. You just don't get all three.

Be careful of the manufacture that tells you they have a small monitor, with 92dB sensitivity that plays deep. Something has to give.... Also note that there are several ways to report efficiency/sensitivity and the numbers are not comparable. Sensitivity is usually presented as 2.83V/1M into 8 ohms and manufactures will typically pick a spot above the baffle step to choose that number. Some will average 300-3K and use that as the 2.83V/1M number. Overall, sensitivity ratings are one of those things that really get abused in the "spec" game.

Just understand that nobody has a way of getting around the laws of physics. If it is a high efficiency design it will give up bandwidth, period.