looking for small, high db, high WAF monitors ?

griller · « **Reply #20 on:** 21 May 2008, 08:22 pm »

Quote from: Mariusz on 21 May 2008, 08:00 pm

Griller,
do you think RWA 30sig. will be able to drive my Quatros......?????
That would be really great since my new preamp (DODD Audio battery powered) is on the way and I should get it in a week or so.
I am happy with my modded Consonance Cybers 800 driving my Quatros but if RWA30sig can handle the load.....well, I could use them ( Cybers that is) with M&D Ruby which I am picking up next week and Sig.30 with Vandersteens.

Any thoughts??????

Thanks

Mariusz

I was saying the Sapphires are real easy to drive, and this is from experience. I've never owned the Quatros, but I've heard them w/Krells so I can't say about the RW. The Ruby looks like fairly tough little bugger to drive, even on their webpage they say 80watts +. I haven't heard them, but from reading reviews and talking to people I'm pretty convinced I'd much prefer the Sapphires for my sonic priorities.

BrianM · « **Reply #21 on:** 21 May 2008, 09:51 pm »

According to the company website the Sapphires play to 48Hz +/- 3dB (anechoic). If you really want a 30-40Hz bottom end your choices are more limited. You said "small" was a requirement but never indicated if that meant standmounts only. Some floorstanders have smallish footprints, the Salk SongTowers for example, which would get you bass response as low as you're looking for and not take up any more room, and have a higher WAF (one would think).

bpape · « **Reply #22 on:** 21 May 2008, 09:58 pm »

True on the bottom end anechoic. I've measured them doing -6 at 37Hz in my room when they were here.

Bryan

Double Ugly · « **Reply #23 on:** 21 May 2008, 10:02 pm »

For the extension you seek, I recommend the SP Technology Timepiece Mini or the ACI Sapphires.

The Mini's bass performance is well-documented here and elsewhere, and having heard the Sapphires at last year's RMAF, I can assure you they produce far more and better bass than their specs would lead you to believe.

The Mackies may be a good choice, too, but I've not heard them.

BrianM · « **Reply #24 on:** 21 May 2008, 10:06 pm »

Quote from: bpape on 21 May 2008, 09:58 pm

True on the bottom end anechoic. I've measured them doing -6 at 37Hz in my room when they were here.

Bryan

Yes, in room response is usually (always?) a bit lower. Website says "usable in-room response extends cleanly to 38-40Hz." Didn't mean to make it into a numbers game or anything. A lot depends on the room too, obviously. My standmounts are -3dB @ 40Hz and -10dB @ 32Hz or so, I believe. SongTowers, or Timepiece Minis, would be around the same as that, i.e. just a bit lower than the Sapphires.

BrianM · « **Reply #25 on:** 21 May 2008, 10:15 pm »

Quote from: Double Ugly on 21 May 2008, 10:02 pm

and having heard the Sapphires at last year's RMAF, I can assure you they produce far more and better bass than their specs would lead you to believe.

On paper, assuming a relatively flat FR, their specs would lead me to believe they have ample and excellent bass. I guess it depends on whatever preconceptions you bring to it.

Carl V · « **Reply #26 on:** 21 May 2008, 10:33 pm »

all good choices mentioned so far.

Consider Selah SSR. It can be sealed
for a smaller monitor. It has the big brother
split cone Scan Speak midwoofer wrt to the ACI
Sapphire. The Selah has a nice Ribbon tweeter.
If you would prefer Rick can do it with the AirCirc
Tweeter...which is a better tweeter than the
ScanSpeak ACI uses.

Best of luck. Truly, there is wealth of very good
monitors to choose from-many have been mentioned.
Question is do you want a Mini-monitor, a Monitor or
a very small footprint floor stander.

Mariusz · « **Reply #27 on:** 21 May 2008, 10:35 pm »

Hi again Griller,

I am a little suppriced with Sapphire recommendations.......I will tell you why.
I have heard Ruby and Sapphires plenty...believe me. During 2008 CES in Vegas I was helping out with the room of one of the M&D dealers, who also happend to carry Sapphires. Sapphires.....I believe are around 83.5 db if I am not misstaken. That is only a bit better efficient then Ruby. Recommended power is around 100wpc still. The only thing that sets the Sapphires apart from Ruby is better tweaked crossover , two ports instead of one to improve overall bass definition and they can be bi-wired , which is great and definitely helpfull when choosing amplification. Priced however at $2350 or so is just over my budget. I can have Ruby demo pair for $1100 flat. I am not saying that there is no difference between the two......, there is but it is out off my reach , at least for now.

I will have Ruby for in home audition next week and will report on my findings for those with similar questions. If it turns out to be a fluke, I will try to find a dealer with speakers mentioned in this tread and some Omegas which are very good....just a little big and low WAF at least in my house but I love their sound and the fact that they are very easy load and Vinny's choice for his room at the show as an excellent match for his amp.

I am scratching my head in disbelieve that I have such a dilemma with a speaker choices for my second system. I have never thought that I will be pressed against the wall on this issue. Plus, some of the speakers recommended by fellow audiophiles are very difficult to audition at home or at the dealer's showroom.

As to other recommendations.....well, I would love to audition Timepiece monitors as well as few others . Just don't have a clue where to find them , never the less have a listening session to get the idea what they sound like. NY can be a lonely place....sometimes.

Cheers

.

mateo · « **Reply #28 on:** 21 May 2008, 10:37 pm »

Quote from: Mariusz on 21 May 2008, 10:35 pm

Hi again Griller,

I am a little suppriced with Sapphire recommendations.......I will tell you why.
I have heard Ruby and Sapphires plenty...believe me. During 2008 CES in Vegas I was helping out with the room of one of the M&D dealers, who also happend to carry Sapphires. Sapphires.....I believe are around 83.5 db if I am not misstaken. That is only a bit better efficient then Ruby. Recommended power is around 100wpc still. The only thing that sets the Sapphires apart from Ruby is better tweaked crossover , two ports instead of one to improve overall bass definition and they can be bi-wired , which is great and definitely helpfull when choosing amplification. Priced however at $2350 or so is just over my budget. I can have Ruby demo pair for $1100 flat. I am not saying that there is no difference between the two......, there is but it is out off my reach , at least for now.

People are referring to ACI Sapphires, not M&D Sapphires (?). The ACI Sapphire XL is a small monitor that uses "conventional" Scan-speak drivers.

Zero · « **Reply #29 on:** 21 May 2008, 11:05 pm »

Buy a set of Audio Concept Inc (ACI) Sapphire XL's and be done with it.

You'll thank us later.

Steidl Guitars · « **Reply #30 on:** 21 May 2008, 11:28 pm »

Another you might consider is the Silverline Minuet.

They are quite small (9" x 5.5" x 7.25") but sure didn't sound small to me. Inexpensive too at $600 new.

http://www.silverlineaudio.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=91

Randy · « **Reply #31 on:** 22 May 2008, 03:06 am »

Marius - I think there is some confusion since you are getting recommendations for different kinds of speakers. In your lead you say you are looking for speakers with "high db." I believe you mean speakers with a high rate of sensitivity, like the Omegas. I think some of your responders thought you meant speakers that will play very loudly but are not very sensitive and require high powered amps, speakers like the SP Technologies and the ACI's. Just my two cents.

sorenj07 · « **Reply #32 on:** 22 May 2008, 03:22 am »

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-MDR-V6-Monitor-Headphones-Voice/dp/B00001WRSJ/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1211426562&sr=8-1

i keed, i keed.

Mariusz · « **Reply #33 on:** 22 May 2008, 04:15 am »

Got those as well as Stax , Shure .....I don't thing they are going to fill the room the way I wanted but they sure will disappear.......sonically as well as physically.

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Yes , higher sensitivity is what I am after.
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Sorry about confusion...so many speakers with Sapphire in the name. Should have pay attention.

I did check them out......very interesting speakers.

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Silverline Minuet look nice but I could use a little more in the lower bass....but also interesting. Price wise, awsome.

Thanks to all - some great stuff...really.

Mariusz

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #34 on:** 22 May 2008, 06:01 am »

Quote from: Mariusz on 21 May 2008, 10:35 pm

NY can be a lonely place....sometimes.

Naaaa.....there's always the NY Audio Rave.......

JLM · « **Reply #35 on:** 22 May 2008, 09:38 am »

You're having a tough time of this simply because what you're asking for is nearly physically impossible (high efficiency, fairly deep bass, and small). If such a product existed (and had universally accepted good build/sound quality) wouldn't everybody be buying them? Getting just two out of three would be tough enough.

My advice is to keep in mind that this a 2nd system, one for casual/background/lifestyle listening. Accordingly I'd be going for something that sounds good at lower spls, isn't fatiguing, and has a more limited frequency response (both bass and treble to avoid sounding thin). So "reasonable" efficiency and middling depth of bass would be acceptable. Omega Speakers are the obvious choice. Louis does beautiful work with customization available, some are small, all are efficient (often sold with Red Wine amps) and smaller ones are available. They should provide what I just described.

The alternatives are to cheat a bit on your parameters. As mentioned above, narrow floorstanders like the Salk Songtowers (compared to frankly awkward looking standmounts on a thin posts) is one option. Active (powered) speakers as I mentioned above is another option. Don't knock active until you've heard it (most do and most haven't), the advantages are undeniable once you've heard them.

BrianM · « **Reply #36 on:** 22 May 2008, 11:27 am »

I agree with JLM that you're asking an awful lot. (I also originally assumed that "high db" meant loud as opposed to efficient.) Along the lines of what JLM says here,

Quote

Accordingly I'd be going for something that sounds good at lower spls, isn't fatiguing, and has a more limited frequency response (both bass and treble to avoid sounding thin). So "reasonable" efficiency and middling depth of bass would be acceptable.

...what about these:

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrfull&1214067887

A single driver like the Jordans would be a great choice for a smaller second system IMO.

Mariusz · « **Reply #37 on:** 22 May 2008, 02:30 pm »

Asking for monitors that are of small footprint, dig deep into the 40-50Hz region, are wife friendly, relatively easy to drive for around $1200 is indeed much
but that is why I decided to ask you guys for help. If not here then where ??????
Audiogon?........I think not. At least not from my experience.

I have learned here more in few short days then on AgoN in years. Go figure.

Few days ago while listening to Rubys I also had a chance to audition Fremont speakers. From the two pairs of Fremonts only one could dig really deep in to the 20-30Hz region. That "monitor" is huge and costs around 20K but still benefited from the sub - from the same manufacturer. The second pair cost 10K and with limitation of 36Hz ( on paper ) was way overpriced for what it does.
So , what am I trying to say is that even the excellent, expensive designs can not do what is physically impossible. I fully understand that and it is not what I am looking for.

My goal is to find the speaker with clarity, definition that posses the bass that is dynamic, clean and articulated.

From speakers that I have heard in that price range and that I like are:
Omega, M&D, FJ, Zu tones, Hyperions, Ushers and few others.

Single driver, no crossover idea is very appealing to me and designs like Zu or Omega would feet the bill if WAF and price was in check.

DIY speakers are OK but are a very hard sell, so I have to pass on those.
But thanks for the suggestion.

But away, this forume is way better then Agon............that is you guys.
Thanks

Zero · « **Reply #38 on:** 22 May 2008, 03:19 pm »

Mariuisz,

I will reiterate my suggestion buried in the thread.

The ACI Sapphire XL's are an attractive option due to their general versatility. Although they have a very common efficiency rating, their simple crossover really makes it easy for darn near any amp to drive them well. You'll get a very enjoyable sound, very good bass extension and dynamic range from a compact footprint. They can play any genre of music well, are easy to position, and mate well with a multitude of components. Best of all - they are affordable! I'm not sure you could get a pair from ACI for $1200 - - but I do see them pop up used on Audiogon from time to time in that range.

Mariusz · « **Reply #39 on:** 22 May 2008, 04:59 pm »

If they come up for sale on AgoN in my price range I will be very interested to try them , even if only for the reason of knowing what the buzz is all about.
I am open for suggestions....always (it is not that I am like this old horse that only folowes the path ones learned and that is all that it remembers.). I will keep my eyes open.

Thanks