[richidoo]

I agree Warner, nicely put. The way to know how much your acoustic treatment is worth is to take it down after a couple months and see how much you miss it. It really is a waste of money to upgrade equipment when you can only hear 10% of the improvement.  As you get higher up the gear food chain, the improvements are more and more subtle, like the law of diminishing returns. Bad acoustics make those subtleties mostly invisible, so the quest continues forever, when your first, well researched system might have been good enough!

Allen, I understand Ethan's point about the need for absorbtion to reduce ringing and get RT times down, and for treating reflections on lower budgets, especially when the listener enjoys music that does not even have a soundstage or "air"    What's your take? How low in frequency can a large diffusor like yours work? How close can the listener sit to large cell diffusors while still getting a homogenous diffusive field? Can this effect be measured to know you are far enough away? Does the 1D phase diffusion  of your models work as well as a 2D type in a small stereo listening room? Sorry for so many questions, but I am genuinely interested, because there is precious little (free) info for the layman about using diffusion properly. Thanks!

Rich

[zybar]

The bottom line is room treatment is a VERY worthy endeavor. I consider it a priority now knowing how much it affects the sonic presentation. Room acoustics can make of break ANY system, even a 100,000 one.  If your system costs more than about 2k then you need room treatments. If you spent way more then the cost to benefit is excellent. The improvement is or can be better than buying speakers that cost twice as much. You're better off with the half as expensive speakers in a room with good acoustics, the system in there will sound better.

So if you planned on 5k, spend at least 2 or 3k. If your system retails for 10k or more then the investment will be something you'll wished you'd done long ago. The improvement is far superior to swapping electronics and certainly wire. It amazes me how much money is spent trying to fix the sound of one's system buying gear when the problem is the ROOM.  The frequency response of the average room is horrible. The room does more damage than a 5 year old let loose with a graphic equalizer in your system. This is measurable fact!

Warnerwh is spot on!!!

The biggest thing I learned over the last 12+ years is that putting any mid-fi and up gear into an untreated room is a waste of time, effort, and money!!  You will never truly hear what the gear is capable of without proper room treatment - period!!

While I think most people here know that I use, love, and highly recommend Ethan's prodcuts, Glenn makes a quality product too.  The important part at the end of the day is to use the proper room treatments (whether pre-made or DYI) so you can enjoy your system. 

George

[2bigears]

thks all,sounds like i am behind proper procedure again.been chasing the sound with gear all along.my sound is pretty good even in a bad room.really don't know what to tackle first,but corner and first wall seem to be the things to fix first.do you guys think the corners need full floor to ceiling treatment???? back wall deffusion is very costly.this last mod is something you can do in baby steps and hear the music gettin' better.can't wait to try a few panels

[John Casler]

cool can't wait to cram more stuff into my 11x14 living room den great room listening room, I finally bought my first really nice piece of furniture 2 yrs ago and I'm gonna make it look like my dorm room circa 77.

well there is no current women to piss off and I do a damn good job of it just being me.

maybe some oversized acoustically inert Barney stuffed animals say 4 foot tall and start a day care    

I am heading down the room treatment road all in good time.

I mean no harm sometimes I just gotta laugh at this stuff, I have currently 10 boxes with wires, manuals, tubes, empty vertical audio rack and such in the middle of the small dinning area, its great to be a guy.  Too bad women will just not let us be us.

I have to agree and if you make the room a "fully dedicated" room with "your sound" preferences being the #1 goal, you may even consider a different approach like the "listening chamber" I employ.

It effectively reduces most all HF and MR reflection, but does not damage LF.  For LF, I use a few DIY bass traps, and as I have often advocated, OPEN all the doors and windows of the room (if feasible) to let out as much bass energy as possible.

My set up is only good for those who like the sound of "Headphones with Soundstage", since that is basically what it sounds like.  The purity of headphones (little to no HF/MR reflection) but with the spaitial cues and directionality of speakers.  Far less expensive than trying to treat a whole room.

I opened all the doors and windows yesterday afternoon, and spent almost 2 hours listening.   It was fantastic.

[bpape]

I think doing 2 corners well with something that will reach down fairly low and the side wall first reflections is a good starting point.  I know exactly the headphones with soundstage that John is describing.  That's more what we shoot for in a studio mixing/control room.  In a dedicated 2 channel room, many people (myself included) don't want it quite that dead.

Part of it depends on the size of the room and how 'good' it is to start with.  The better the room potential is, the more you can allow it to play a part in the reproduction. 

Rear wall diffusion is a nice thing to have if you have the space.  But, IMO, it's not nearly as important in the first steps as getting a handle on a bit of the bass ringing and early reflections. 

Bryan

[Alwayswantmore]

I think doing 2 corners well with something that will reach down fairly low .... Bryan

Bryan, does this mean front 2 corners?