Economical cables......

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EDS_

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Economical cables......
« on: 1 Nov 2006, 10:33 pm »
I. I'd like to recable my second system. Cary CD-303 (CDP), Cary SLI-80 (tube integrated-6922, 6SN7 and then either KT-88s or EL-34s for output), Spendor S5e floorstanders.

II. My current cables are Kimber 8TC, Monster interconnects (gag!)-all power cables are stock but detachable

III. I'd like to recable the entire rig.

A DIY cable project might be fun. Any thoughts? Generally, I'm fairly conservative, costwise, regarding cables.

SET Man

Re: Economical cables......
« Reply #1 on: 2 Nov 2006, 03:40 am »
Hey!

    EDS, that is a nice system you've got there.

    I see you are looking for new cable. I'm sure that you don't to spend lots of money for those mumbo jumbo cables right? Well, than welcome to club. It this your first DIY project? If so don't worry making cable is easy.

    There are couple of design you could do. When I set out to build my own cable for my system I was looking into VH Audio site http://www.venhaus1.com/diysilverinterconnects.html This very simple design.... of cause you don't have to use silver a good copper would do to.

     But I didn't go for it. I went for another design. Multi-conductors, paralle run flat, in between teflon tape.







   Well, what is this reminded you of? :D Anyway, the copper wire is from Vampire 26ga. 6N coated (magnet wire) This wire is now getting much more epensive and harder to find now. :( And I was pretty lucky to get a hold of 2 rolls of clear 3M teflon tape. These are expensive if you buy them new from retailer. I only have some left but I do have couple of rolls of NOS mil-spec thicker brown teflon tapes, but I might need to add some adhisive to it. Than Bullet Plug copper completed the picture :D

   I choose this design for it... first for the simplicity of it and  low capacitance, the 26ga wire is big enough to carry good voltage but not too big to the point where the so called skin effect kick in. My other consideration is the 29ga.  The Bullet plug is simple and work great. You could use the packaging tape but the teflon will have much less static charge storage.

    Like you I have an all tubed system... except  the CDP and the DAC. The cable sound great on my system. I used to have MIT T2, Kimber KC, cheap Audio Quest, and of cause some Monster :roll: The improvement I got from my DIY cable is clearly better! :o I haven't try them in other system, especially ss system yet. And I haven't compare them with more expensive brand name cable. But all I know is that they are great in my system right now :D

     As I mentioned before the Vampire wire is getting much more expensive now. The alternative would be Cardas magnet wire 29ga... it is smaller, will be harder to work with and you will need a few more conductors run with this. And as for the teflon.... well, that would be the hardest one to get :? I guess you could use packaging tape. The other trick is to use 1 or 2 more conductors on the negative/return side.... my latest set used this and the sound seem to be better :D And if the cables will be longer than 1 meter you might need to shield them. I just use kitchen aluminum foil Reynold brand sound best.... just kidding :lol: You could see some more picture in my gallery. :D BTW you could just tape the tape to the floor and run the wires with your hand on to the tape instead of stringing them like I did. Also, there is a link of which converted the ga. to mm so you could calculate how many conductors you will need. I think my cable is about 21ga total per pole.

      Well, have fun and keep us posted on this. I'm sure after you finished your first set of cable you won't be buying anymore of those $$$$$$ brand name cable again like me! :D

Take care,
Buddy :thumb:


EDS_

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Re: Economical cables......
« Reply #2 on: 3 Nov 2006, 05:20 am »
Thanks SET Man. You've given me a lot to consider.

Russell Dawkins

Re: Economical cables......
« Reply #3 on: 3 Nov 2006, 05:32 am »
these by Steve Eddy look pretty darn nice for homebrew:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=14883.msg140158#msg140158

SET Man

Re: Economical cables......
« Reply #4 on: 3 Nov 2006, 05:56 am »
these by Steve Eddy look pretty darn nice for homebrew:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=14883.msg140158#msg140158

Hey!

   That is very neat and simple. :D

Thanks SET Man. You've given me a lot to consider.

    No problem man! :D I got sick of paying $$$$$ for cable and that how my DIY cable started. And some of them sound like voodoo to me :lol: If you need a roll of teflon. Let me know. I guess we could work some deal on this. :D  I do have a few roll of NOS mil-spec. But they are a bit old and you might have to add some adhisive to the tape before put wire and tape together :D I better check them. :?

   Oh! here is another good link on DIY thingy.

   http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/tweaks.html

   Go to the "DIY Cable" and there is a graph showing ga. to mm conversion. This way you will know how many conductors to use to get to a certain ga.  Hmmm... my first set of cable using 5 of 26ga wires is about  19ga per pole :D

    Well, have fun and  keep us posted :D

Take care,
Buddy :thumb:

Kevin Haskins

Re: Economical cables......
« Reply #5 on: 3 Nov 2006, 06:21 am »
I've had very good results with the Canare L-2T2S.   I know it isn't blessed by virgins or it isn't something that is made from your 30 year old piano strings but it looks good, feels good, measures good and sounds great.    The price is good too.... For budget line level interconnects it gets my vote.


gooberdude

Re: Economical cables......
« Reply #6 on: 3 Nov 2006, 04:53 pm »
Hey SETMan, those are the coolest looking DIY cables i've seen...then again I am a fan of mapleshade!

Thought i'd chime in due to a good experience with a cheap IC last night.  Promitheus Audio is selling silver IC's with nice Canare RCA's for $70.    I'd never heard a silver cable before last night, i figured i'd hate it if it was 'bright'.   It isn't, and i just paid $150 for a paul speltz anti-IC less than a month ago - comparing these 2 is gonna be a lot of fun.   gobs & gobs of bass in the silver, not what i was expecting.

last night the silver IC completely embarrassed my long-tme favorite, a mapleshade clearview, after only 30 minutes of break-in.

the silver IC's are a solid core strand of silver inside a tiny clear tube, 2 strands per IC.   a good example of a homebrew recipe done right i think.

GD

Occam

Re: Economical cables......
« Reply #7 on: 3 Nov 2006, 05:25 pm »
For baseline powercords -
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=15325.0
You can't get more economical than these.
Not the most extended treble or bass. And the bass is a bit plummy, but overall a very substantial upgrade over the typical OEM cord. But for <$1 ft. terminated, in quantities of >=2, whaddaya 'spect?

SET Man

Re: Economical cables......
« Reply #8 on: 3 Nov 2006, 06:40 pm »
Hey SETMan, those are the coolest looking DIY cables i've seen...then again I am a fan of mapleshade!


   Hey! What is that supposed to mean? :lol: My cables are definately cooler than those! :cool:


Thought i'd chime in due to a good experience with a cheap IC last night.  Promitheus Audio is selling silver IC's with nice Canare RCA's for $70.    I'd never heard a silver cable before last night, i figured i'd hate it if it was 'bright'.   It isn't, and i just paid $150 for a paul speltz anti-IC less than a month ago - comparing these 2 is gonna be a lot of fun.   gobs & gobs of bass in the silver, not what i was expecting.

last night the silver IC completely embarrassed my long-tme favorite, a mapleshade clearview, after only 30 minutes of break-in.

the silver IC's are a solid core strand of silver inside a tiny clear tube, 2 strands per IC.   a good example of a homebrew recipe done right i think.

GD

   Hmmm... I checked out the Promitheus site and that is a pretty good price for  silver IC... even though is 4N silver. Well, at least they tell you that. And the Canare  RCA is very nice. For the price, for a non-DIYer it won't hurt to try them.

   As for silver. I do have some as internal wire for my pre-amp and I the sound is an improvment is better than copper but not so much that I would rewire my entire system with silver. It will be too much of the good thing :lol: And also the cost. :(

Take care,
Buddy :thumb:


jaspal kallar

Re: Economical cables......
« Reply #9 on: 14 Dec 2006, 01:52 am »

Thought i'd chime in due to a good experience with a cheap IC last night.  Promitheus Audio is selling silver IC's with nice Canare RCA's for $70.    I'd never heard a silver cable before last night, i figured i'd hate it if it was 'bright'.   It isn't, and i just paid $150 for a paul speltz anti-IC less than a month ago - comparing these 2 is gonna be a lot of fun.   gobs & gobs of bass in the silver, not what i was expecting.

last night the silver IC completely embarrassed my long-tme favorite, a mapleshade clearview, after only 30 minutes of break-in.

the silver IC's are a solid core strand of silver inside a tiny clear tube, 2 strands per IC.   a good example of a homebrew recipe done right i think.

GD

hej gooberdude: Did you come to any conclusion in comparing Nicks Silver IC and the speltz anti-IC ?
   
    -jaspal.

Folsom


Russtafarian

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Re: Economical cables......
« Reply #11 on: 14 Dec 2006, 07:13 pm »
My latest el-cheapo, simple yet labor-intensive, DIY IC recipe:

Ingredients:  Solid core copper wire from CAT5 cable, 12 gauge Teflon tubing, RCA connectors, heat shrink tubing, patience, fortitude, etc.

Wire Prep: Remove and untwist wire from CAT5 bundle.  Cut four pieces of wire to the desired length of interconnect plus a few inches.  Strip insulation from wire.  This is labor intensive since I can only seem to strip 3 to 4” of insulation at a time.  Polish bare wire with fine steel wool.  Keep polishing until it pulls smoothly through the steel wool.  You’ll be amazed how much residual insulation comes off the wire.  Clean bare wire with Caig ProGold. 

Construction: Cut four lengths of Teflon tubing the exact length you want for the IC.  Solder two bare wires to one RCA connector, one to pin (+) one to sleeve (-).  Slide   Teflon tubing over each wire and lightly twist together over the length of the wire.  Slide heat shrink (about 2” length) over the tubing to cover the solder connections and shrink. Before shrinking, make sure the Teflon tubing covers the wire right up to the solder joint.  You may need to temporarily tape the wire to the tubing on the other end to keep it from slipping and sliding.  Slide on and secure RCA barrel (if applicable to the connector).  Slide on RCA barrel and heat shrink for other end connector.  Trim wire and Teflon tubing as needed to snugly fit the wire and tubing to the second RCA connector.  Use a continuity meter to ensure that you connect + to + and – to - .  Solder, shrink, secure, etc. the second RCA connector. Repeat for second pair.

Cost:  The amount of CAT5 wire used per IC costs pennies.  I use a Calrec gold plated RCA connector I get from the local electronics store for $2.50 each.  When I want to splurge I get the Calrec WBT knockoffs for $6.00 each.  The 12 gauge Teflon tubing at the same store is $12 for 20 feet.  I get black tubing because it looks pretty cool on the finished product.  Three feet of heat shrink tubing is another $3.  So I estimate the cost at around $20 to $35 a pair depending on length and connectors.

Obviously there are many variations one could try: cotton vs teflon, single vs multiple conductors, parallel vs. twisted, silver vs. copper, etc.  I used silver wire in this configuration for years because it tended to lift the harmonic textures of the music above the grunge of my system.  As my systems has gotten quieter (thanks Felicia) and more transparent, I’ve gone back to copper for a more balanced presentation.

Russ

Russtafarian

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Re: Economical cables......
« Reply #12 on: 14 Dec 2006, 07:44 pm »
Sorry, I forgot to add the line "these cables sound better than any other interconnect ever made or ever will be made costing up to or exceeding one gazillion dollars".   :lol:

That's better.

Russ

crossroadazn

Re: Economical cables......
« Reply #13 on: 14 Dec 2006, 08:12 pm »
What I did for second system was buy a good long pair of IC like ~15 ft ( AQ Coral ) then chopped it off to make 5x3ft pairs  :thumb: