Home Theater - Advice Wanted!

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mkrawcz

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Re: Home Theater - Advice Wanted!
« Reply #20 on: 27 Dec 2022, 09:10 pm »
The PS Audio BHK series uses PRP resisters and Rel caps in the signal path. No cheese. Are there better components? Yes, but the preamp would probably cost $20k or more if each resistor used cost $8.

BrandonB

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Re: Home Theater - Advice Wanted!
« Reply #21 on: 30 Dec 2022, 04:36 am »
The most important piece of equipment for sound quality depends on the source. If the source is digital, the DAC is the most important piece, much more so than the source itself (transport, streamer, server, etc).  If the source is vinyl, not counting the cartridge, the phono preamp is probably the most important. When adding the cart into the equation, it becomes a balancing act. Is it better to spend more on the cart vs the preamp or vice versa? The answer to that is going to depend on who you ask. In my system, the cart and phono preamp are about the same price.


The only BHK piece I have is the preamp. Not being an audio engineer (or any type of engineer for that matter) I can't comment on the quality level of the parts used, only to the quality level of the sound produced, and that is top notch.

I will stream all of my music.  So I am trying to research DAC's.  I am want to build a quality HiFi system and just run movies through the main speakers and subs.  I don't mind spending a little bit of money on a good PreAmp.  Maybe up to $2000-$2500 if I can use it to watch movies with the mains.  I have read some great things about the Schist Freya+ with a few mods but not sure if I can use it to watch movies.  They are running about $800 on average used.  I am also looking at the Class D Audio MiniGaN 5.  They have great reviews and are priced right.    These amps have a ton of power and low noise and great clarity from the reviews people are giving.  This is new technology and I can tell a lot of people are a little afraid of change but some guy in the forum have sold their old more expensive and heavier equipment because they love this amp so much.  I have also read that thie are a few mods you can make and they sound even better.  I talked to Tom and he said I could just send him the parts and he would build with the parts and keep the warranty.  And at last I am waiting on some speakers that I think I will like from GR Research.  The New 8in drivers.  Danny said he is looking at pairing them with 3 8in servo's.  So I imagine it will be a 8in MTM on top of 3 8in servo subs.  That is just a guess an I think that would be really cool. Let me know what you guys think.  Any new Ideas on a preamp?  Oh I have also looked at a DAC by Geshelli Labs.  It is really cheap and $300.  They have a backlog of orders for about 2 months.  I really don't know much about DAC"s at all but there must be something right about it with a backlog of orders.  Let me know what you guys think.


mkrawcz

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Re: Home Theater - Advice Wanted!
« Reply #22 on: 30 Dec 2022, 11:48 am »
I have 2 Geshelli Labs J2 dacs. The AKM and ESS versions. They are pretty outstanding at their price for a made in the USA dac. Very simple and to the point dacs. No fancy features.

BrandonB

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Re: Home Theater - Advice Wanted!
« Reply #23 on: 30 Dec 2022, 02:14 pm »
I have 2 Geshelli Labs J2 dacs. The AKM and ESS versions. They are pretty outstanding at their price for a made in the USA dac. Very simple and to the point dacs. No fancy features.

Sounds like you enjoy the J2s.  I just want to make sure this is the piece of equipment I need.  Will it play to the highest quality of files for a high end system?  Do you have a preference on which chips out of the 2 you have?  What else will I need Streamer, Power chord, etc.?  Can you tell me about your setup?

mkrawcz

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Re: Home Theater - Advice Wanted!
« Reply #24 on: 30 Dec 2022, 02:57 pm »
Sounds like you enjoy the J2s.  I just want to make sure this is the piece of equipment I need.  Will it play to the highest quality of files for a high end system?  Do you have a preference on which chips out of the 2 you have?  What else will I need Streamer, Power chord, etc.?  Can you tell me about your setup?
If you want a dac that will better the J2, you need to spend about $3k on a Matrix Element x or a Holo Spring 3.   For me, I prefer the ES9038Q2M version because it’s more detailed. While the akm version is a little more dynamic in the bass with slightly less pinpoint imaging and soundstage. You want the USB option which is pretty much a perfect implementation of USB in a dac. I use a Ifi Ipowerx 12v supply with mine which made a noticeable improvement in SQ. For streaming, if you’re not using Roon, I recommend the Bluesound Node. If you are using Roon, I recommend the Ifi Zen Streamer. The reason is the Bluesound Node simply does not work right with Roon and USB. It’s been a problem for a while and neither company will address the issue. They keep blaming each other. I also built a number of streamers myself with single board computers and Linux. If you’re computer savy, the cheapest thing you could do is get a Raspberry Pi and install Moode which is free. Theoretically, you can make a streamer that will do it all for about $70 or $80 with a Raspberry Pi. I am currently playing around with an Intel based single board computer running Ubuntu which I have set up as a Roon endpoint and Spotify connect. It’s kind of inspiring me to write my own Linux distro and streaming software.

Delta77

Re: Home Theater - Advice Wanted!
« Reply #25 on: 30 Dec 2022, 04:50 pm »
"I'm no expert but I personally am much happier without a center speaker. I found when my mains were set up properly  the sound stage and imaging was much better, might be my room its not big ".

"That's really smart.  Get the best speakers you can, then bring the rest of the gear to their level is an excellent approach."

"With my NX-Otica MTM/H-frame speakers I don’t use a center channel. The Oticas image so well and are so clean they don’t need a center channel. Plus, adding a center channel speaker that is not on the same level as the Oticas would only diminish the presentation".



These quotes above make Perfect Sense to me.!

Also if your going to purchase Main speakers, might as well buy a set of towers, Because you will need to buy something to set them on anyways.
Subs are a must 85% of the time.

Like it was said earlier, Get the best Front tower speakers you can afford and then raise the level of every piece of your system to match the Speakers performance.
And at that point you may realize that you enjoy Music more from your system than most Movies, like the rest of us.

Yes, I started out with the SAME notion you have, Improve my Theater system, then it became a game of "How Good Can I Make My System Sound".

Long story short it's much easier and less expensive to get a great 2 Channel system than a 5-7 channel system.

Believe me you will be just fine with a 2 channel system for movies.!
 

mlundy57

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Re: Home Theater - Advice Wanted!
« Reply #26 on: 30 Dec 2022, 05:31 pm »
I will stream all of my music.  So I am trying to research DAC's.  I am want to build a quality HiFi system and just run movies through the main speakers and subs.  I don't mind spending a little bit of money on a good PreAmp.  Maybe up to $2000-$2500 if I can use it to watch movies with the mains.  I have read some great things about the Schist Freya+ with a few mods but not sure if I can use it to watch movies.  They are running about $800 on average used.  I am also looking at the Class D Audio MiniGaN 5.  They have great reviews and are priced right.    These amps have a ton of power and low noise and great clarity from the reviews people are giving.  This is new technology and I can tell a lot of people are a little afraid of change but some guy in the forum have sold their old more expensive and heavier equipment because they love this amp so much.  I have also read that thie are a few mods you can make and they sound even better.  I talked to Tom and he said I could just send him the parts and he would build with the parts and keep the warranty.  And at last I am waiting on some speakers that I think I will like from GR Research.  The New 8in drivers.  Danny said he is looking at pairing them with 3 8in servo's.  So I imagine it will be a 8in MTM on top of 3 8in servo subs.  That is just a guess an I think that would be really cool. Let me know what you guys think.  Any new Ideas on a preamp?  Oh I have also looked at a DAC by Geshelli Labs.  It is really cheap and $300.  They have a backlog of orders for about 2 months.  I really don't know much about DAC"s at all but there must be something right about it with a backlog of orders.  Let me know what you guys think.

Do you have a streamer you like or will you also need a streamer? Also, the streamer needs to be compatible with the service/software you intend to use. If you are only going to stream from a streaming service like Spotify, Qobuz, Amazon music, etc., there shouldn't be any compatibility issues. However, if you also have music files on a computer/server, there could be somew issues. For example, if you use ROON, the streamer needs to be ROON compatible.

If you have a streamer, make sure the DAC you choose has inputs that are compatible with the streamer's outputs.

If you don't already have a streamer you want to use then there are two options: two separate pieces of equipment a streamer and a DAC or streamer/DAC combinations. Since you also need a preamp that adds more options. These are:

separate streamer, DAC, and preamp (3 boxes),
separate streamer and DAC/preamp combo (2 boxes),
streamer/DAC combo and separate preamp (2 boxes),
streamer/DAC/preamp combo (1 box),
then there is the fully integrated option of streamer/DAC/preamp/power amp (1 box)

There are a number of options in each category some examples are:

separate streamer, DAC, and preamp (3 boxes) - more options here than I can count.

separate streamer and DAC/preamp combo (2 boxes) - streamers, many - DAC/preamp: PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC, Bluesound Node,

streamer/DAC combo and separate preamp (2 boxes) - streamer/DAC: Lumin D2, PS Audio DirectStream DAC with Network Bridge II, PS Audio DirectStream DAC Jr., / preamp - many

streamer/DAC/preamp combo (1 box) - NAD C658, Bryston BDA-3.14,

fully integrated option of streamer/DAC/preamp/power amp (1 box) - PS Audio Stellar Strata, NAD C389 or C399 with a BlueOS module, NAD M10, NAD M33

Not having personal experience with most of the above, I can't make any recommendations except for the Lumin D2 and the PS Audio gear.

Your budget is going to be a big factor. Combination pieces are usually more expensive than a given separate but may save money compared to each type of piece in the combo. Used is also a viable option. a lot of my gear was bought used. In addition to marketplace sites like Audiogon and US Audio Mart, some dealers like The Music Room https://tmraudio.com/ , carry a lot of used equipment.

All the choices can be overwhelming. One way to simplify things when starting out, is to stick with components from the same manufacturer. This is the easiest way to get good synergy and be sure the components are compatible. This advise isn't just for starting out though. I've been all over the map with mixing and matching. Sometimes it worked, other times not so much. Now I've come full circle and am back to all components coming from the same manufacturer.

On the HT topic: it's easiest to integrate HT into a two channel system if the two channel preamp has an HT by-pass function. Sometimes this is a dedicated input on the preamp or it is assignable like in the PS Audio Stellar Gain Call DAC and Strata. with the Stellar products, any input can be set-up as an HT by-pass. This allows the main speaker volume to be controlled by the home theater receiver. The receiver does have to have at least front Left and Right main speaker preamp outputs for connection to the two channel preamp.

If the two channel preamp doesn't have HT by-pass capability, it can still work. Each time you switch the two channel preamp to the HT connected input, you need to set the volume to a specific level and leave it there. Normally, the best level is whatever level corresponds to unity gain for the 2 channel preamp. At this point, the signal is basically passing through the two channel preamp without being boosted or cut.

BrandonB

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Re: Home Theater - Advice Wanted!
« Reply #27 on: 1 Jan 2023, 02:12 pm »
As of now, the 2 channel electronics include:

Sources:
PS Audio DirectStream DAC MK1 (currently Beta testing the MK2 which will replace the MK1).
PS Audio Stellar Phono preamp
PS Audio PerfectWave SACD transport

Preamp:
PS Audio BHK preamp



Poweramps:
PS Audio Stellar M1200 monoblocks
McIntosh MHA200 headphone amp fed from the DAC

The HT electronics include an ARCAM AV40 pre/pro and PS Audio Stellar M700 monoblocks for the surround channels. Massive overkill for surround channels, I know but I had them so might as well use them.

All components are fully balanced and connected with XLR cables.

Mike I was looking at your equipment and noticed that you have class D amplifiers.  What do you think of your mono blocks.  They definitely have power.  I was about to purchase some class D audio mono blocks.  They have the new GaN technology but I pulled back because of some of the feedback on the forum.  A may still go with them because the price is right. 

VinceT

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Re: Home Theater - Advice Wanted!
« Reply #28 on: 1 Jan 2023, 04:31 pm »
"I'm no expert but I personally am much happier without a center speaker. I found when my mains were set up properly  the sound stage and imaging was much better, might be my room its not big ".

"That's really smart.  Get the best speakers you can, then bring the rest of the gear to their level is an excellent approach."

"With my NX-Otica MTM/H-frame speakers I don’t use a center channel. The Oticas image so well and are so clean they don’t need a center channel. Plus, adding a center channel speaker that is not on the same level as the Oticas would only diminish the presentation".



These quotes above make Perfect Sense to me.!

Also if your going to purchase Main speakers, might as well buy a set of towers, Because you will need to buy something to set them on anyways.
Subs are a must 85% of the time.

Like it was said earlier, Get the best Front tower speakers you can afford and then raise the level of every piece of your system to match the Speakers performance.
And at that point you may realize that you enjoy Music more from your system than most Movies, like the rest of us.

Yes, I started out with the SAME notion you have, Improve my Theater system, then it became a game of "How Good Can I Make My System Sound".

Long story short it's much easier and less expensive to get a great 2 Channel system than a 5-7 channel system.

Believe me you will be just fine with a 2 channel system for movies.!


I recently moved to a 4.1 set up and removed the center channel using the Encores as mains. I must say the balance is much better trying to integrate a center with my set up and overall sound much more balanced. Optimizing a 2 channel then using it with HT is great is you get the center imaging correct with 2 channel. I prefer to have all the sound in stereo versus dialouge in a center channel where the mains become more background.

WGH

Re: Home Theater - Advice Wanted!
« Reply #29 on: 1 Jan 2023, 04:41 pm »
I had the PS Audio Stellar M1200 amps on loan for a week and wrote a review:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=176173.msg1856501#msg1856501

It would be fun to hear Mike's home theater, while listening to the M1200 I was wondering what surround sound would sound like with a complete Stellar setup, overkill would be an understatement.

Huge gobs of power is nice when driving inefficient full range speakers that go down to 20 Hz but not necessarily needed in a home theater. Surround receivers can take advantage of this by selling affordable products that don't need to weigh 100 lbs. The lower powered amps in a receiver do just fine in a home theater because all the bass below 80 Hz is handled by a subwoofer, driving an efficient speaker from 80 Hz on up takes relatively few watts.

If you are planning a 5.1 setup then the center speaker is he most important, 99% of the dialog comes from the center speaker, clarity has to be the priority and since all bass goes to the sub the speaker can roll off at 80 Hz and you would never notice, if fact it is better if it does otherwise male voices can take on an overly chesty quality.

That said, my 7.1.4 Dolby Atmos surround sound home theater has 4 amps and a REL Gibraltar G2 sub for a total of 1740 class AB high current watts. One reason I need so many watts is the Triad surround and Atmos speakers are only 84dB efficient and watching the latest Dune film with a soundtrack by Hans Zimmer requires lots of power to reach movie theater levels. I saw Dune in a theater that has excellent sound and then at home and the clarity, volume and dynamics were identical.

mlundy57

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Re: Home Theater - Advice Wanted!
« Reply #30 on: 1 Jan 2023, 08:04 pm »
Mike I was looking at your equipment and noticed that you have class D amplifiers.  What do you think of your mono blocks.  They definitely have power.  I was about to purchase some class D audio mono blocks.  They have the new GaN technology but I pulled back because of some of the feedback on the forum.  A may still go with them because the price is right.

Brandon,

I don't know anything about GaN technology so can't offer an opinion.

Class D amps have come a long way.  Over the past 15 years or so I have had a mix class D and class A/B amps in my system. Some of them are: NAD C372 (solid state A/B), Jolida 801A (tube A/B), PrimaLuna Prologue 4 (tube A/B), PS Audio Stellar S300 stereo amp (SS D), PS Audio Stellar M700 monoblocks (SS D), and PS Audio Stellar M1200 monoblocks (hybrid tube A input stage, SS D output stage). The S300, M700, and output stage of the M1200 use ICEpower Class D amplifier modules. For me, the hybrid design of the M1200 sounds the best.

There are a number of Class D amplifier modules available such as ICE, PufiFi, Hypex, etc. The most important aspect is how the Class D topology is implemented. Look at the company producing they amp. What's their focus? Where does sound quality fit into their mission/vision/what they are all about?

I don't know if their trade-in policy is unique or not but PS Audio will take any working piece, or pieces, of audio equipment in trade and allow the full retail purchase price of the trade-in item(s) toward anything in their Stellar and PerfectWave lines up to 30% of the cost of the product you are buying. If the trade-in value exceeds 30% of the cost of the item you are buying, the excess is "banked" for future use. They have a 30 day trial period. You pay up fromt but hold on to your trade in until you decide if you want to keep the new item or not. If you decide to keep it, you send the trade in piece(s) back.

Research and reviews can only take you so far. The only way to for sure is to listen to an amplifier in your system in your room. If you buy used and don't like it, you can sell it and get all or most of your money back. If you buy new, make sure there is a trial period where you can return it for a full refund.

mkrawcz

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Re: Home Theater - Advice Wanted!
« Reply #31 on: 1 Jan 2023, 10:55 pm »
Paul McGowan mentioned in one of his recent videos that they will probably start using Purifi modules in their amps. There is a good reason for that.  :wink: