Phase issues in the RM30C

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meilankev

Phase issues in the RM30C
« Reply #20 on: 28 Nov 2004, 01:37 pm »
Well, as usual, I'm the stick-in-the-mud relative to some issue - this time it has to do with the sonic benefits of Room Treatments.  On two different occasions over the past year, I've put up a fairly comprehensive array of Room Treatments in my listening room:
> absorption panels at first reflection points on front wall (behind speakers) and on side walls
> 3 bass traps in each front corner (12 total)

The first occasion, a friend brought over his DIY work, which was based upon a gentlman named Jon Risch (I think that how it's spelled).  A few months later, my brother brought over some Auralex products.  Notice I was not in the position to A/B these products against each other - only "treated room" vs "untreated room".

In both cases, there were considerable "changes" to the sound, and the first impression was "wow, that's really great!!".  But that's the way it usually goes, as it's easy to fall into the trap of "any change is perceived as an improvement".  With additional time, it became apparent to me that within this "wall of change", the majority was not for the better.

There are four criteria that play into this (unusual) result:
1) Room geometry
2) Furniture/carpet/etc
3) Specific audio gear that comprises the system
4) Preferences/goals of owner

For example, my friend who built the Risch-design products pretty much agreed with my analysis of the pros/cons of these products in my room.  However, my brother disagreed.  We heard the same changes.  But he felt the improvements his Auralex stuff brought far outweighed any drawbacks.  Same room, same gear - two different "preferences".

Kevin

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Phase issues in the RM30C
« Reply #21 on: 28 Nov 2004, 03:00 pm »
Kevin,

That's what I love about this hobby - each person can design their system to their wants/needs/desires.  :mrgreen:

Could you either post some pictures or give a little more info on the room?

What didn't you like and what did you like with the room treatments?

Not asking this for you to justify your position, instead it will provide more info for people thinking about room treatmenmts.

George

meilankev

Phase issues in the RM30C
« Reply #22 on: 28 Nov 2004, 10:01 pm »
George,

I admit I do not remember all the details, but to the best of my ability, these were some of the results.

Some improvements (that treatments brought to my system):
1) Soundstaging was improved - particularly depth
2) Deep Bass was slightly improved, but was pretty tight to begin with
3) On certain material, the presentation seemed to be more coherent (but this was debatable)

Some negatives:
1) First and foremost, the dynamics were affected for the worse
2) Imaging lost a little focus

In summary, the differences were readily apparent.  And at first, I was very excited.  Additionally, these changes were so varied, it took some time to sort them out as individual entities - particularly because they interacted with each other.

But if you've followed any of my old posts describing the overall pros and cons of my system, "dynamics" and "upper bass impact" have been the headliners.  And this fit perfectly into my listening preferences, as polite systems leave me uninvolved.  Any change that is detrimental to this "preference" of mine doesn't stand much of a chance of sticking around.

Kevin

rblnr

Phase issues in the RM30C
« Reply #23 on: 29 Nov 2004, 07:42 pm »
I have some thick bass traps in the corners behind my 40's and LRC, augmented by homemade panels behind and at the point of first reflection.  The improvement in focus was not subtle.

On top of this, my Meridian processor does room correction below 250hz -- adding this cleans up the sound a bit more.  Ironically, getting rid of some muddiness below seems to free and clarify the mids and highs.

IMO, room treatment is far and away the most cost effective way to improve sound.  I'll take it over cables/power conditioners, etc.

ekovalsky

Phase issues in the RM30C
« Reply #24 on: 30 Nov 2004, 02:07 am »
Quote from: rblnr
On top of this, my Meridian processor does room correction below 250hz -- adding this cleans up the sound a bit more.  Ironically, getting rid of some muddiness below seems to free and clarify the mids and highs.


Is that the G68?  If so how do you like it?  I'm considering a G98 transport and a G68 processor.

rblnr

Phase issues in the RM30C
« Reply #25 on: 1 Dec 2004, 09:56 am »
It is the G68, and I think it's a fantastic processor for music and movies. I use it w/a 598 transport, the precursor to the G98 -- it's a synergistic combo both sonically (they essentially function as one large processor when connected) and ergonomically.  Trifield works extremely well w/my VMPS array across the fronts and center.

After going thru a lot of digital front ends, preamps and processors, I've become a big fan of Meridian.  They make unique products (they write all their own code for Dolby processing, for example) and the G68 is one of the few processors I've heard that sounds organic and real w/music.  

Anyway, PM me if you have any questions.